Waratahs 2021

[dru]

National Comp for Rugby League started by building out of the NSW state comp. Pretty sure there exists Shute Shield club leadership people who think this should have been the model for Rugby. Or something which at least maintained the role of their club in primacy within the professional era. The relationship with NSWRU is one thing, but many of that old guard see the Waratahs as outright commercial competition and RA as enablers.

It doesn't permeate 100% through all clubs, but those who are not stuck in issues from a tomb-stone past look to the interests of their own clubs and see nil support from NSWRU - and RA as actually costing them money to prop up the professional system.

End result is either a lack of or diminished engagement, through to active hostility depending on the club and specific individual.

The accuracy or truthfulness of these positions is kind of moot. There is a clear cultural divide, not necessarily cohesive or consistent in nature, but it continues to negatively impact rugby in NSW.

And Australian rugby along with it.

 

[I like to watch]

how many games to they play at the venue over the course of the day for those finals?

.
they had 15,000 people there.

the real question is, when the Tahs were posting crowds of 9,000 (when most people there knew they were counting limbs, not attendees)
how many actually paid to be there (excluding corporates and members).

 

[7137]

So...
The Force secure Sitaleki Timani and are favoured to secure Rodda. And Roger Davis is out bushwalking.

 

[TSR]

Everyone is entitled to time off.

The bloke absolutely has all sorts of questions to answer in terms of his leadership/performance. By all means condemn him for every other aspect of his performance.

But everyone is entitled to leave and, in jobs like this, there is no perfect time to take it. Especially in these days where mental health issues have become so prevalent we should resist from protesting someone’s leave IMO.

 

[Adam84]

Everyone is entitled to time off.

The bloke absolutely has all sorts of questions to answer in terms of his leadership/performance. By all means condemn him for every other aspect of his performance.

But everyone is entitled to leave and, in jobs like this, there is no perfect time to take it. Especially in these days where mental health issues have become so prevalent we should resist from protesting someone’s leave IMO.

Yea everyone is entitled to time off, however the Super Rugby season is only 3 months long, and noting that 3 months is where 90% of his organisations revenue, surely that’s not the best time to take a holiday where you’re completely uncontactable.

Players and coaches can’t take a holiday during this period either, like players I think the perfect time for the chairman to take a holiday would be the off-season. Especially this year noting the risk of a covid outbreak impacting on the season and requiring decisions about relocating teams etc.

If he required a break for mental health reasons, then I’ve overstepped the mark.

 

[fatprop]

Sorry, but what would the "chairman" be doing?

He asks questions at board meetings, he can't pull $$$ out of his arse

He isn't there day to day, the CEO and his staff do the normal stuff and they work within the parameters of the revenue

 

[dru]

Sorry, but what would the "chairman" be doing?

He asks questions at board meetings, he can't pull $$$ out of his arse

He isn't there day to day, the CEO and his staff do the normal stuff and they work within the parameters of the revenue

Whatever the answer to this, bushwalking is not it.

 

[TSR]

Yea everyone is entitled to time off, however the Super Rugby season is only 3 months long, and noting that 3 months is where 90% of his organisations revenue, surely that’s not the best time to take a holiday where you’re completely uncontactable.

Players and coaches can’t take a holiday during this period either, like players I think the perfect time for the chairman to take a holiday would be the off-season. Especially this year noting the risk of a covid outbreak impacting on the season and requiring decisions about relocating teams etc.

If he required a break for mental health reasons, then I’ve overstepped the mark.

The offseason is normally the busiest time for these types of jobs. I sure as hell hope we haven’t got to a point where the Board chair is involved in match day prep.

With regards to mental health - allowing appropriate leave to avoid mental health issues is far superior to this constant need to run people into the ground and then try and be supportive later when the damage is done which is the culture that most organisations and people seem to embrace. The best time to take leave is up to the individual. We’ll be a better society when we start getting that.

Just let the guy take leave. Go full barrel at him for the rest of the year, I couldn’t care less.

 

[Adam84]

Sorry, but what would the "chairman" be doing?

He asks questions at board meetings, he can't pull $$$ out of his arse

He isn't there day to day, the CEO and his staff do the normal stuff and they work within the parameters of the revenue

If that's all the NSRWRU Chairman does then save the Tahs some money and scrap the role FP.

Coaching roles, board to management relations and the upholding the culture of the organisation certainly falls within the Chairman's responsibilities, and right now they're evidentially an issue within the organisation. Penny in the Force/Brum game post match interview was clearly stressed and not certain about his future, CEO isn't making a decision on Penneys future, its the board and the chairman who represents them who need set the record straight and take some of the pressure off the coach by removing ambiguity. On top of this its a COVID year, when a border lockdown could completely derail the season and planning for TT is still uncertain.

In 2018 a season where the Reds were sitting at 4 wins and 10 losses and questions were been asked about Thorns future QRU Chairman Jeff Miller came out and publicly backed Thorn and said he wants him as a 10 year coach at the organisation, and said the QRU were moving to re-sign him for the following season as they believed in the long term success model. Reds won the two remaining matches that season and finished 6-10. That's what a "chairman" could be doing FP.

 

[Adam84]

With regards to mental health - allowing appropriate leave to avoid mental health issues is far superior to this constant need to run people into the ground and then try and be supportive later when the damage is done which is the culture that most organisations and people seem to embrace. The best time to take leave is up to the individual. We’ll be a better society when we start getting that.

Sure, but you can't overlook that different jobs and different organisations will have times when its impractical or unsuitable to take holidays, and windows where they encourage employees to take holidays to ensure that within a 12 month period they're getting a sufficient amount of rest and time away from the job.

Waratahs players can't exactly take a 9 day hiking holiday during the middle of their season. Lawyers and Accountants will have periods through the year in which they're encouraged to take holidays, and where they're expected to be at work due to the work loads. Nurses, doctors, paramedics, police etc cant all take holidays over Christmas and new years.

I'm all for people taking breaks if there's a mental health requirement to do so, however i myself work in a job where there's busy periods and quiet periods, and to be frank I'm paid for the work i do in the busy periods, not the quiet ones. With that there are windows throughout the year we are encouraged not to take holidays, but equally weighted with clearly defined periods where we are encouraged to take time off. However over the top of all this sits a mental health framework which is absolutely the priority, and one we have exercised a number of times.

 

[Pfitzy]

If that's all the NSRWRU Chairman does then save the Tahs some money and scrap the role FP.

Modern corporations are built on bloat like this, to give the illusion that there is actual oversight and layers of failsafes. That people sitting on these Boards are somehow smarter than the people in the C-Suite and can make sure everyone plays by the rules. Sometimes it even works

*ahem* Crown Casinos *ahem*

Certainly I think there is a time limit on any ExCo or Board position. Davis having been there for nearly a decade is a problem for me, as continuity and longevity have different values.

 

[John S]

Whatever the answer to this, bushwalking is not it.

The chairman is not an executive position - merely the leader of a board of managers - surely he could deputise the chairmanship while away (and probably has).

Basically, the chairman is a "figurehead" not essentially a decision maker - even though can be part of a decision making process, but if the appropriate procedures are in place, him not physically being there should be a non-issue.

If you think of it like a local footy club - you have the president who runs the Admin side of the club, manages the meetings etc, then you have the "Club Captain" or Head coach who looks after the actual day to day running of the club.

 

[fatprop]

Sure, but you can't overlook that different jobs and different organisations will have times when its impractical or unsuitable to take holidays, and windows where they encourage employees to take holidays to ensure that within a 12 month period they're getting a sufficient amount of rest and time away from the job.

Waratahs players can't exactly take a 9 day hiking holiday during the middle of their season. Lawyers and Accountants will have periods through the year in which they're encouraged to take holidays, and where they're expected to be at work due to the work loads. Nurses, doctors, paramedics, police etc cant all take holidays over Christmas and new years.

I'm all for people taking breaks if there's a mental health requirement to do so, however i myself work in a job where there's busy periods and quiet periods, and to be frank I'm paid for the work i do in the busy periods, not the quiet ones. With that there are windows throughout the year we are encouraged not to take holidays, but equally weighted with clearly defined periods where we are encouraged to take time off. However over the top of all this sits a mental health framework which is absolutely the priority, and one we have exercised a number of times.

A chairman (and the board) approve the CEO's plan, budget and structures. They then get out of the way and let operations do their job. The comparison with "Nurses, doctors, paramedics, police" is silly.

There is nothing they can do at the moment except sack the CEO and approve (or not) the management decisions the CEO makes, they made those calls a while ago and I assume we are going as shit as they expected.

With a playing budget of a million less than their competitors and no evidence that revenue will improve in the short term, the cattle will be kids and detritus with the adults able to take better options for a few years

 

[Adam84]

I think the issue is, that many of us don’t believe the right procedures are in place, there’s a coach under enormous pressure and the organisation should be doing more to alleviate that pressure, so he can focus on what his job is and that’s to coach.

As a figurehead the chairman should be the face wearing a large chunk of this pressure, and not letting it fall onto those below him. That’s what he is paid for.

Given everything that has occurred over the past 3 years at the Tahs with Hore and Gibson, I don’t understand how anyone can defend the board or the chairman.

 

[kiap]

him not physically being there should be a non-issue.

Be great if old mate was not physically there permanently.

 

[barbarian]

Two things can be true here. Davis as Chair doesn't have a day-to-day role, and as such him taking leave isn't a big deal.

But it's undeniably a bad look. He's out of contact, apparently, which in 2021 I struggle to really believe. I don't think he necessarily should have cancelled his holiday and rushed home (to do what?) but at a time where there seems to be a real need for leadership it's far from ideal to have your long-standing Chair hiking in the Tasmanian wilderness.
.

 

[RugbyReg]

A chairman (and the board) approve the CEO's plan, budget and structures. They then get out of the way and let operations do their job. The comparison with "Nurses, doctors, paramedics, police" is silly.

There is nothing they can do at the moment except sack the CEO and approve (or not) the management decisions the CEO makes, they made those calls a while ago and I assume we are going as shit as they expected.

With a playing budget of a million less than their competitors and no evidence that revenue will improve in the short term, the cattle will be kids and detritus with the adults able to take better options for a few years

you're a little out of the loop of the 'all hands on deck' nature of sport...Chairman should be having weekly meetings with the CEO at least. See what Hamish McLennon has been doing with RA? Should be present at every match liaising with key stakeholders (govt, corporate etc). And when you approved a $1M budget cut to the team and dumped a new coach into the position to manage it, you should be there by his side to support him and to give the players at least some sort of confidence in the organisation.

 

[Braveheart81]

.
they had 15,000 people there.

How is it relevant though? It's the grand final. It happens once a season.

It's like pointing to the Marlins vs Rats local derby and saying look how many people attend Shute Shield games.

Clearly Waratahs crowds are struggling badly (as is every Australian team really).

 

[Pfitzy]

It's like pointing to the Marlins vs Rats local derby and saying look how many people attend Shute Shield games.

Ah yes, one of the games that the Shute Shield nuffies use as an example for the rude health of the club game and why do we need an NRC anyway?

Ignoring the fact that some Subbies clubs draw bigger crowds than "Premier" clubs.

 

[RebelYell]

Two things can be true here. Davis as Chair doesn't have a day-to-day role, and as such him taking leave isn't a big deal.

But it's undeniably a bad look. He's out of contact, apparently, which in 2021 I struggle to really believe. I don't think he necessarily should have cancelled his holiday and rushed home (to do what?) but at a time where there seems to be a real need for leadership it's far from ideal to have your long-standing Chair hiking in the Tasmanian wilderness.
.

Agreed. Fluid interstate travel restrictions aside, there are more months in the year when the NSW Waratahs are not playing, than when they are. As Chairman, you should pick one of those times.