Waratahs 2021

[Braveheart81]

Well let's see

Coaching:

Gibson, Gibson and Gibson. Hore defended him and ignored the 2017 review to sack Gibson. The Tahs were a basket case on the field despite experienced players but Hore kept re-signing him and let him run the team like a bunch of headless chooks.

.

Well, I certainly know how to press your buttons.

Gibson's main contract was prior to Hore arriving yet you seem to put Hore as the chief architect for everything Gibson did. Could it be that the assistant coach NSWRU had spent 3 years grooming as an assistant to take over from Cheika was their darling and they're the ones who were pushing to keep him?

Recruitment of young players finally started happening well in 2019 (Hore's last year). That's when we signed Harrison, Bell, Ramm, Donaldson etc. Prior to that we'd dip our toes in with young players on contracts and largely they were guys that never went anywhere. I'm looking back well before Hore's tenure to question when this was last done at all well.

You seem to assume Hore was given carte blanche to do whatever he wanted within NSW Rugby. History before and after suggests this is pretty unlikely.

Or if I asked about Roger Davis would you say exactly the same things?

It's literally not possible for each of the key players in the saga to be wholly responsible for every aspect of the situation.

 

[BIgz20]

Teir 1 - all to be RA top up
Michael Hooper
Ned Hanigan
Matt Philip
Isaac Rodda

Teir 2
Fergus Lee Warner
Tolu Latu
Brad Wilkin
Michael Wells
Need a 13 ??

Who's on the wishlist for next year? A THP and some locks, but who?

 

[Rob42]

Both of the "what went wrong at the Tahs" articles at FoxSports and the SMH today are good, though depressing, reading. But they also highlight the limitations of rugby reporting - for several years, it's been clear there were problems with management, but never anything reported as clearly as these articles. I guess the very small pool of rugby reporters in Sydney need to stay on the good side of the team to maintain access, so articles reporting that the GM or CEO has fallen out with the coach aren't going to go too far until much later. Frustrating.

Could be worse of course. We could have Danny Weidler reporting on rugby.

 

[Hawko]

Do you mean at the SCG? because fuck that right off. The worst Rugby (sporting?) viewing experience I've ever had.

Watching the Lions test at Homebush stadium (cost me hundreds of dollars for a supposedly gold class seat) was significantly worse than the SCG.

 

[eastman]

This is also a great article, hits the nail on the head around player development and recruitment.2 years in shute shield should be a minimum, if they are good enough to get a contract at 19 let them prove themselves in a tough week in and week out environment.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...y/news-story/c94a350aedf88c33fbacc713029fda0f

The Foxsport article is one of the most agenda- driven pieces I've read in a long time.
This quote 'It was noted that when the Wallabies won the World Cup in 1991 and 1999, there wasn’t an emphasis on the under-20s program' - is pretty telling and you don't need to be a genius to work out who some of these sources are.

 

[Blackadder]

Well, I certainly know how to press your buttons.

Gibson's main contract was prior to Hore arriving yet you seem to put Hore as the chief architect for everything Gibson did. Could it be that the assistant coach NSWRU had spent 3 years grooming as an assistant to take over from Cheika was their darling and they're the ones who were pushing to keep him?

Recruitment of young players finally started happening well in 2019 (Hore's last year). That's when we signed Harrison, Bell, Ramm, Donaldson etc. Prior to that we'd dip our toes in with young players on contracts and largely they were guys that never went anywhere. I'm looking back well before Hore's tenure to question when this was last done at all well.

You seem to assume Hore was given carte blanche to do whatever he wanted within NSW Rugby. History before and after suggests this is pretty unlikely.

Or if I asked about Roger Davis would you say exactly the same things?

It's literally not possible for each of the key players in the saga to be wholly responsible for every aspect of the situation.

Davis should 1000000000% go. The fact the team is as crap as it is and he goes on a holiday where he can't be contacted should be the last straw. Let's see what happens in April.

The youngsters you mention came from mostly the same batch every team were buying the successful Gilmore team.

As I said the review at the end of 2017 in Hore's own words was to get rid of Gibson and he ignored it AND re-signed him since then. They are mates. Simple.

A CEO should look at the results, look at recruitment, look at the issues and try to fix them but Hore and Gibson are mates.

 

[Blackadder]

Teir 1 - all to be RA top up
Michael Hooper
Ned Hanigan
Matt Philip
Isaac Rodda

Teir 2
Fergus Lee Warner
Tolu Latu
Brad Wilkin
Michael Wells
Need a 13 ??

Wilkin??
Wells??

Been there done that. Hell no.

I believe Phillip is returning to the rebels

 

[eastman]

Davis should 1000000000% go. The fact the team is as crap as it is and he goes on a holiday where he can't be contacted should be the last straw. Let's see what happens in April.

He doesn't hold a hose mate.

 

[Derpus]

As Braveheart suggests the likes of McCauley did actually spend a fair bit of time in the Shute Shield. What has always been needed is one of two things. Either the Shute Shield moves to become a lower level professional structure allowing for players to better focus on Rugby or we maintain the NRC but look to properly resource it.

No one in NSW seemed interested in the NRC. I imagine the conversation went like this:

'Hey would you like a semi-professional feeder comp that'll give you access to a wider variety of talent and help develop the talent you already have?'
'Do the participants have to come from a GPS school?'
'.......no'
'nah fuck that fluffybunny she'll be right'

 

[wamberal]

Players not playing any SS is one of the many myths that fester in Aus rugby and are given so much airtime.

Not sure what you mean. Could you please expand on this?

 

[wamberal]

He doesn't hold a hose mate.

He might be better at holding a hose than he is in his current role.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I'm interested to know why so many have such a negative opinion of Andrew Hore as CEO.

Because he made a key appoint in a coach then resigned himself a week later. That makes you a person of low standards, moral and ethics. He left NSW rugby in a worse state than when he arrived happy for anyone to argue otherwise do your best.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Yeah, I'm sure Hore did some good things, I agree the increased connection to community rugby.

I found the opposite when Chekia was coach he cared about the grass roots being a product of it, Gibson and other Kiwi guns for hire didn’t care for the grass roots, not their tradition, not their history, no emotional connection.

 

[eastman]

I found the opposite when Chekia was coach he cared about the grass roots being a product of it, Gibson and other Kiwi guns for hire didn’t care for the grass roots, not their tradition, not their history, no emotional connection.

Eddie Jones has been one of the more successful coaches of the English rugby team - how much connection and value does he place on their traditional clubland and pathways?

 

[Dctarget]

As a Rebels fan it hurts to suggest it but Philip is a Sydney man, he’d be a great get if he hasn’t committed to Melbourne.

 

[dru]

Eddie Jones has been one of the more successful coaches of the English rugby team - how much connection and value does he place on their traditional clubland and pathways?

I've got actually no idea what you are trying to say here. It is a completely different environment. If you are suggesting that if Eddie transferred to coach the Waratahs, that he would place no value on the relationship with SRU - well, I humbly disagree.

 

[eastman]

I've got actually no idea what you are trying to say here. It is a completely different environment. If you are suggesting that if Eddie transferred to coach the Waratahs, that he would place no value on the relationship with SRU - well, I humbly disagree.

My (quite obvious) point is that it’s not the job of the coach of a professional team to set the whole culture of an organisation and relationship with pathways.

 

[dru]

My (quite obvious) point is that it’s not the job of the coach of a professional team to set the whole culture of an organisation and relationship with pathways.

No idea how Jones in England makes that obvious. And translated into the Tahs Eddie would almost certainly be thinking about SRU, pathways and culture.

But sure, they are matters that spread much more broadly than the HC.

 

[Adam84]

My (quite obvious) point is that it’s not the job of the coach of a professional team to set the whole culture of an organisation and relationship with pathways.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Adam84]

If a coach of an Australia Super Rugby team didn’t consider the grassroots then to be quite frank, he is an idiot. Engaging the grassroots is critical to sowing the seeds for future generations of progressional athletes, it would be selfish short term logic to think it’s not important.

It also provides meaning and purpose to the team they represent beyond just a simple paycheque