Waratahs 2020

[molman]

I expect Bell to be less effective around the field as he has to invest more effort into scrummaging, same has happened to TT, less 50m crashing runs because has prop work to do

and then as the prop work starts to become good, the general play starts to grow again

I don't agree that it's an either or. Just look at Cody Taylor on Saturday for the Crusaders. Pretty decent scrummager and exceptional around the field. I think the days of a quality prop being either or are long gone.

 

[Up the Guts]

Even if we do come last or near the bottom I just hope we keep up the aggression. I’m particularly looking forward to seeing Swinton sit some Brumbies on their arses.

 

[fatprop]

I don't agree that it's an either or. Just look at Cody Taylor on Saturday for the Crusaders. Pretty decent scrummager and exceptional around the field. I think the days of a quality prop being either or are long gone.

Pretty hard to equate kiwis with the aus lived experience as a prop, they get bullshit scrums for years and play in teams that promote around the field play over heavy lifting.

So we see units like Bell that do wonderful things around the field and they get promoted before they are completely formed props

They then either fail or learn, during that learning phase they struggle

same thing happens to backs, we see some young gun who can run like the wind, but can't tackle.

the best learn and it balances out, too often in Aus rugby we have learned to live with flawed units

 

[Getwithme]

Pretty hard to equate kiwis with the aus lived experience as a prop, they get bullshit scrums for years and play in teams that promote around the field play over heavy lifting.

So we see units like Bell that do wonderful things around the field and they get promoted before they are completely formed props

They then either fail or learn, during that learning phase they struggle

same thing happens to backs, we see some young gun who can run like the wind, but can't tackle.

the best learn and it balances out, too often in Aus rugby we have learned to live with flawed units

yeah agreed. Was speaking with former Red and Wallaby Sean Hardman the other day and he basically mirrored what you said.

Used to two seasons of colts, a year in grades before you were in any squads which allowed the forwards in particular to develop their games and set piece work. Having said that, the changing nature of professionalism has meant this has to be the case.

 

[RugbyReg]

Being at the game Reg, did anything else stand out for the Tah's? Hard to get a full sense of players positional play, how quick they get back in the line etc.. just from the TV, particularly when we often only see the tight camera shots.

Two glaring things.

1) The Tahs were REGULARLY off-side
2) The Reds defensive alignment, particularly around the ruck, was terrible. Tahs missed a few chances there.

 

[Number 7]

Anyone seen any announcement of the venue for Tahs vs Reds on Aug 8th?

 

[KOB1987]

Anyone seen any announcement of the venue for Tahs vs Reds on Aug 8th?

They only announced the venues for the first 2 home games. I think they want to select the best stadiums for the next 2 based on the Covid guidance a little closer to the time.

 

[molman]

Pretty hard to equate kiwis with the aus lived experience as a prop, they get bullshit scrums for years and play in teams that promote around the field play over heavy lifting.

So we see units like Bell that do wonderful things around the field and they get promoted before they are completely formed props

They then either fail or learn, during that learning phase they struggle

same thing happens to backs, we see some young gun who can run like the wind, but can't tackle.

the best learn and it balances out, too often in Aus rugby we have learned to live with flawed units

Fair observation. There is a degree of boys vs. men at times. The Mitre 10 does seem to be a better training ground in recent years than either the Shute Shield or Hospital Cup. That said I'm still not convinced that Bell's all round play need regress for the sake of his scrummaging to improve. Maybe we put a pin in this and see at the end of the comp how he's tracking. I do hope for the sake of the Tah's you are wrong

 

[molman]

Two glaring things.

1) The Tahs were REGULARLY off-side
2) The Reds defensive alignment, particularly around the ruck, was terrible. Tahs missed a few chances there.

1) I thought Berry was a little lenient on a number of elements around the ruck. Looked like a bit of a flop fest at times with a bit of a wide gate. The offside is frustrating as that was meant to be part of the crackdown to get some of the space back for the attacking team. I suspected they were pushing it on occasion and could be been pinged more than they were. I wish the ref's would go harder on last feet, offside isn't where you decide to make the line.

2) What are your observations of how the Reds seem to have been coached? There just seems to be elements of their game that really seem to lack attention to detail. I keep feeling like a team with so much capacity. You get to see it at times but rarely the whole performance. When it's all clicking, they can just look so good. They're not even my team and I get frustrated with them.

 

[Brumby Runner]

BH,

I thought the Waratahs were substantially better than I expected. After McDermott scored the soft try following Bell's yellow card I thought the flood gates could have opened and the Tahs lose by 40.

The scrum hasn't been strong for years. Bell will improve over time but the whole scrum is fairly weak. I don't think it is down to any part of it alone. The Reds have had on of the most powerful scrums for years now.

I thought most of the Tahs players were better than they were early in the season. Ramm had an excellent game and looked really threatening and I also thought Newsome did well at 13. His best game for a fair while. Maddocks was obviously excellent at 15 and Harrison is getting better every game. I think he will be our long term 10. He really has a well rounded game.

Swinton played probably his best game for the Tahs. He still made one or two handling errors which he needs to cut out of his game. His error rate has always been too high. The pass he threw to Maddocks was sublime though and his physicality is really important.

I think we will struggle not to come last in this comp but I thought we played a whole lot better than we might have. Hopefully we can snag a win against the Force this weekend.

BH, Angus Bell is really a most promising player with a scrummaging weakness. He was often well beaten up in the scrums at U20s, and it is asking a hell of a lot for him to front up at SuperAu level. He has pace and guile in open play, and is not at all on the short side. Could he one day play at No 8 do you think?

Maddocks was excellent and played just as I have been predicting all along once he got into the 15 spot. Tahs will benefit immensely as he gets more game time in that spot. I hope you are proven right about Harrison, but he seems to be a lot like Bernard Foley to me. Has a very strong running game but not so good in getting the backline attack firing. Can be nothing but good for the game in this country if both he and Lolesio prove to be the real deal.

I reckon the Tahs will need to improve to get the better of the Rebels this week, but otoh I don't expect them to have a horrible season. Looking forward to seeing continual improvement in the likes of Swinton, Harris, Tafa, McDonald and Harrison. You already have the goods in HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) and Tom Robinson. Think there are some problems out wide but young Ramm looks promising too. Just think Mark Nawaqanitawase isn't yet quite ready for this level.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Even if we do come last or near the bottom I just hope we keep up the aggression. I’m particularly looking forward to seeing Swinton sit some Brumbies on their arses.

One of Swinton or Valetini is likely to finish up with a very sore arse.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I really like Bell the player, but don't rate Bell the coach.

Might be something to consider down the line not sure.

But Swinton could be oustanding if he sands back the rough edges, Ramm looks great, and I thought Newsome looked really good. Ran a beautiful cutback line on a counter-attack, and showed great footwork. Think he looks a pretty educated player to me, keep him at 13.

 

[Blackadder]

BH,

BH, Angus Bell is really a most promising player with a scrummaging weakness. He was often well beaten up in the scrums at U20s, and it is asking a hell of a lot for him to front up at SuperAu level. He has pace and guile in open play, and is not at all on the short side. Could he one day play at No 8 do you think?

Maddocks was excellent and played just as I have been predicting all along once he got into the 15 spot. Tahs will benefit immensely as he gets more game time in that spot. I hope you are proven right about Harrison, but he seems to be a lot like Bernard Foley to me. Has a very strong running game but not so good in getting the backline attack firing. Can be nothing but good for the game in this country if both he and Lolesio prove to be the real deal.

I reckon the Tahs will need to improve to get the better of the Rebels this week, but otoh I don't expect them to have a horrible season. Looking forward to seeing continual improvement in the likes of Swinton, Harris, Tafa, McDonald and Harrison. You already have the goods in HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) and Tom Robinson. Think there are some problems out wide but young Ramm looks promising too. Just think Mark Nawaqanitawase isn't yet quite ready for this level.

Wow we already gave the win to the Force?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not sure what you mean 'adder. Some sort of cunning plan, or what?

I never mentioned the Force at all, so hopefully you are not implying I have ceded victory to them? I will keep my powder dry on the Force until I've seen them play a couple of games.

 

[KOB1987]

Not sure what you mean 'adder. Some sort of cunning plan, or what?

I never mentioned the Force at all, so hopefully you are not implying I have ceded victory to them? I will keep my powder dry on the Force until I've seen them play a couple of games.

The Tahs are playing the Force this week not the Rebels

 

[Blackadder]

The Tahs are playing the Force this week not the Rebels

 

[Blackadder]

Not sure what you mean 'adder. Some sort of cunning plan, or what?

I never mentioned the Force at all, so hopefully you are not implying I have ceded victory to them? I will keep my powder dry on the Force until I've seen them play a couple of games.

Because the Tahs play the Force this week not the Rebels

 

[molman]

I really like Bell the player, but don't rate Bell the coach.

Might be something to consider down the line not sure.

But Swinton could be oustanding if he sands back the rough edges, Ramm looks great, and I thought Newsome looked really good. Ran a beautiful cutback line on a counter-attack, and showed great footwork. Think he looks a pretty educated player to me, keep him at 13.

What do you think of Newsome's defensive work? He seems to have improved from when he was first moved from the wing earlier this year (Rebels game I think?). I was unconvinced in those early games, but his positional play / tackling seems to be getting better.

 

[pnut]

I really like Bell the player, but don't rate Bell the coach.

Might be something to consider down the line not sure.

But Swinton could be oustanding if he sands back the rough edges, Ramm looks great, and I thought Newsome looked really good. Ran a beautiful cutback line on a counter-attack, and showed great footwork. Think he looks a pretty educated player to me, keep him at 13.

The coach ? Why

 

[Bobby Sands]

What do you think of Newsome's defensive work? He seems to have improved from when he was first moved from the wing earlier this year (Rebels game I think?). I was unconvinced in those early games, but his positional play / tackling seems to be getting better.

To be fair, I was looking more closely our our attack - but to me he just looks like a 13, that was previously forced to play as a winger. Keep him in the out channel and I think you have a good one.

On that note, I have never noticed anything outstanding about Joey Walton's game at any level - but I am sure it's there as he is highly rated. I can't seem to work it out though.