Waratahs 2019

[Braveheart81]

THP remains a massive issue. Even with Vui, there really needs to be a third option because even if he signs for another year in 2020 Kepu is nearing the end of his career and the Tahs need to me using him in an active mentoring role now. I also add Hooker in as I still do not rate Fitzpatrick at Super Level and Latu needs to be under some genuine pressure to maintain form and application, he is in real danger of falling off the top level, with the erratic performances he has put in.

I agree, but it depends on who the options are at THP. The Tahs need to take stock of their props and make some potentially harsh judgements on how good some of them might be. We have a number of young options but we can't just assume that they'll turn into test stars down the track.

I think Johnson-Holmes is really good so I see no issues at the LHP side with Robertson and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes).

Of the others they have Vui, Matt Sandell and Cody Walker. How good are they going to get? Sandell has certainly improved after losing a season to injury but perhaps he is just too small? Does Walker have the necessary promise? Realistically we need two of these guys to have the ability to start a Super Rugby game in 2020 if they are to stay contracted. Vui needs to be ready to start a game in 2019.

Who are the other young options out there and is there a more experienced guy who should be signed to fill a gap next year?

I agree at hooker that Fitzpatrick and Roach are too like for like and we can't keep both long term. Is JP Sauni going to be good enough that he can be the third hooker soon?

Fitzpatrick fell away badly at the end of last season but his lineout and work around the park were generally very good. He's not a star but he's solid. Hopefully Latu is ahead of him for 2019 though. Considering Fitzpatrick kept Latu out of the side for most of the season and should have only lost the spot late in the year when Latu started playing well and Fitzpatrick lost form, I think he was putting enough pressure on Latu.

 

[Silverado]

I agree, but it depends on who the options are at THP. The Tahs need to take stock of their props and make some potentially harsh judgements on how good some of them might be. We have a number of young options but we can't just assume that they'll turn into test stars down the track.

I think Johnson-Holmes is really good so I see no issues at the LHP side with Robertson and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes).

Of the others they have Vui, Matt Sandell and Cody Walker. How good are they going to get? Sandell has certainly improved after losing a season to injury but perhaps he is just too small? Does Walker have the necessary promise? Realistically we need two of these guys to have the ability to start a Super Rugby game in 2020 if they are to stay contracted. Vui needs to be ready to start a game in 2019.

Who are the other young options out there and is there a more experienced guy who should be signed to fill a gap next year?

I agree at hooker that Fitzpatrick and Roach are too like for like and we can't keep both long term. Is JP Sauni going to be good enough that he can be the third hooker soon?

Fitzpatrick fell away badly at the end of last season but his lineout and work around the park were generally very good. He's not a star but he's solid. Hopefully Latu is ahead of him for 2019 though. Considering Fitzpatrick kept Latu out of the side for most of the season and should have only lost the spot late in the year when Latu started playing well and Fitzpatrick lost form, I think he was putting enough pressure on Latu.

Interesting to see that the Eagles played HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) at THP and Paddy Ryan at LHP on the weekend. Someone told me at the SS grand final that one of the Rat props has been signed, but that’s third hand information


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[Blackadder]

I don't see Vui being a long term option at 3. I am glad HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is getting a run there. I think JP should get a few runs off the bench next season to see what he has. Unlike the other hookers he is big and strong. Pass on roach and Latu is still too hot and cold.

I think another season of the light mobile pack will be what we will have in 2019.

 

[Hawko]

I don't see Vui being a long term option at 3. I am glad HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is getting a run there. I think JP should get a few runs off the bench next season to see what he has. Unlike the other hookers he is big and strong. Pass on roach and Latu is still too hot and cold.

I think another season of the light mobile pack will be what we will have in 2019.

No doubt about it! If you follow the trend line of Gibson's squad over the three years he has been head coach they have got progressively lighter and progressively more mobile. You might exclude that trend as an outlier if it was just one year but its not, its three years. Quite clearly in my view, we will not get a change in squad philosophy until Cron takes over in 2020 and then we won't see the progressive results of his philosophy till 2021, because changing squad direction takes time. So, if you are a Waratah supporter as I am you can write off 2019. It'll be Brumbies or Rebels to win the conference (I think Rebels if they get Cooper at 10) and the other to fight out 8th. The Waratahs will be around 10th, remember there are four gimme games in our conference that will give us 16+ points.

 

[fatprop]

The Tahs consistently played great rugby with great intent this year.

They played catch and pass rugby. I honestly can't complain about the intent or style

There squad is not perfect, but the culture seems solid, they work hard and with one or two additions they will be OK. And Dempsey will be like a new signing

 

[Braveheart81]

No doubt about it! If you follow the trend line of Gibson's squad over the three years he has been head coach they have got progressively lighter and progressively more mobile. You might exclude that trend as an outlier if it was just one year but its not, its three years. Quite clearly in my view, we will not get a change in squad philosophy until Cron takes over in 2020 and then we won't see the progressive results of his philosophy till 2021, because changing squad direction takes time. So, if you are a Waratah supporter as I am you can write off 2019. It'll be Brumbies or Rebels to win the conference (I think Rebels if they get Cooper at 10) and the other to fight out 8th. The Waratahs will be around 10th, remember there are four gimme games in our conference that will give us 16+ points.

You had a pretty negative outlook towards 2018 as well.

Why would you write off 2019? We've lost Naiyaravoro who will be hard to replace but we should have Dempsey back and hopefully add another lock that we need to our pack (Skelton).

 

[barbarian]

While I'd like a couple of new signings (especially in the pack), it's nice to see a bit of stability from year to year.

Taking the Ben Darwin theory, another year will only help cohesion and will hopefully see our standard of play improve.

Hopefully.
.

 

[Hawko]

You had a pretty negative outlook towards 2018 as well.

Why would you write off 2019? We've lost Naiyaravoro who will be hard to replace but we should have Dempsey back and hopefully add another lock that we need to our pack (Skelton).

I did have a very negative view on our chances pre-2018 and I think that view would have been justified if the Brumbies hadn't taken 15 rounds to develop a winning gameplan.

We have good players in our pack but absolutely no balance. Everything is biased towards speed and when we meet the Crusaders, Brumbies, Lions and even the Chiefs and Blues we are just not competitive in the pigs. The Rebels pack walked all over ours and still lost the game. The fact that we won does not hide the fact we were totally beaten in the pack that night apart from the scrum. Holloway had one of his best games that night too.

I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but I don't think we have a prayer of doing well until we put more power in our pack and less workhorses. This year our backline covered a multitude of sins until we played a power AND pace team. And then we were second best.

 

[Up the Guts]

Well if we get Skelton back then our pack could look something like:

1. Robertson
2. Latu
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Skelton
6. Dempsey
7. Hooper
8. Holloway

That’s actually a fairly decent pack imho, granted we are a bit light on in depth. If Folau goes to the Reds, as seems to be the mail at the moment, I’d be a bit more concerned about our backs. Israel and Taqele contributed 26 tries between them this year and I can’t see that we’ve got anyone on the roster currently to match even a quarter of those 26.

 

[barbarian]

I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but I don't think we have a prayer of doing well until we put more power in our pack and less workhorses. This year our backline covered a multitude of sins until we played a power AND pace team. And then we were second best.

Jeez Hawko you're a tough man to please if you don't think a good performance in a semi-final is 'doing well'.

It wasn't a 10 out of 10 season by any stretch, but it was probably an 8. I'm not over the moon with it, but I'll take it with a smile.
.

 

[Derpus]

Jeez Hawko you're a tough man to please if you don't think a good performance in a semi-final is 'doing well'.

It wasn't a 10 out of 10 season by any stretch, but it was probably an 8. I'm not over the moon with it, but I'll take it with a smile.
.

Highlanders match alone made up for all the bullshit matches i attended the year before.

 

[Getwithme]

Vui is a very promising prop. He will be ready to start a game.

 

[Hawko]

Jeez Hawko you're a tough man to please if you don't think a good performance in a semi-final is 'doing well'.

It wasn't a 10 out of 10 season by any stretch, but it was probably an 8. I'm not over the moon with it, but I'll take it with a smile.
.

Ask yourself the question: "Would a Canterbury supporter, indeed a NZ team supporter (excluding the Blues, who beat us by the way) be happy with that result for their season?" They might be happy to get to the semi-finals, but when push came to shove we were strictly a class below the top.

Herein lies a conundrum that extends right up to the Wallabies. Just how do we rate a team that clearly is off the pace when the individual players appear to be giving their all? 10/10 for effort maybe, but how do we rate for results and effectiveness?

 

[Derpus]

Ask yourself the question: "Would a Canterbury supporter, indeed a NZ team supporter (excluding the Blues, who beat us by the way) be happy with that result for their season?" They might be happy to get to the semi-finals, but when push came to shove we were strictly a class below the top.

Herein lies a conundrum that extends right up to the Wallabies. Just how do we rate a team that clearly is off the pace when the individual players appear to be giving their all? 10/10 for effort maybe, but how do we rate for results and effectiveness?

4th of 15 is not particularly bad.

This is more of that 'if we aren't winning every match im having a big ol' internet whinge' BS im getting tired of.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ask yourself the question: "Would a Canterbury supporter, indeed a NZ team supporter (excluding the Blues, who beat us by the way) be happy with that result for their season?" They might be happy to get to the semi-finals, but when push came to shove we were strictly a class below the top.

Herein lies a conundrum that extends right up to the Wallabies. Just how do we rate a team that clearly is off the pace when the individual players appear to be giving their all? 10/10 for effort maybe, but how do we rate for results and effectiveness?

This paints it as an entirely black and white situation. Either you win the comp and it's a good year or you don't and it's a failure.

We do have a lightweight pack and need to make a couple of changes there. There isn't going to be a huge change for next season though because we are already committed to most of our players.

Skelton being signed and Dempsey being healthy would make a huge difference to what we offered this season.

I genuinely think we would have a worse team next season if we used the dollars we have available to sign a bigger backrow compared to using it in positions of real need.

 

[barbarian]

Ask yourself the question: "Would a Canterbury supporter, indeed a NZ team supporter (excluding the Blues, who beat us by the way) be happy with that result for their season?" They might be happy to get to the semi-finals, but when push came to shove we were strictly a class below the top.

Herein lies a conundrum that extends right up to the Wallabies. Just how do we rate a team that clearly is off the pace when the individual players appear to be giving their all? 10/10 for effort maybe, but how do we rate for results and effectiveness?

Taking a step back, this is all just a game. As a supporter, I watch it because I enjoy it, and I want to have fun.

If you are only happy with top-level peak performance, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. Why put yourself through that when the object of this whole thing is to enjoy yourself?

As a Tahs fan, I've developed a mindset of just enjoying the ride. Celebrate the wins, commiserate the losses, and if you do more of the former than the latter then it's a pretty good year.

In 2018 there is no doubt we could have done a bit better, especially if we had recruited smarter. I'd certainly hope we plug a few holes coming into 2019. And I don't want to appear like I'm saying you can't criticise the team, but to me if you reach the semis it's a good year.
.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

Ask yourself the question: "Would a Canterbury supporter, indeed a NZ team supporter (excluding the Blues, who beat us by the way) be happy with that result for their season?" They might be happy to get to the semi-finals, but when push came to shove we were strictly a class below the top.

Herein lies a conundrum that extends right up to the Wallabies. Just how do we rate a team that clearly is off the pace when the individual players appear to be giving their all? 10/10 for effort maybe, but how do we rate for results and effectiveness?

If I were a Canterbury supporter I'd keep my trap shut about the Tahs season, because they all know full well that the Crusaders should not have won that game.

 

[Silverado]

Ask yourself the question: "Would a Canterbury supporter, indeed a NZ team supporter (excluding the Blues, who beat us by the way) be happy with that result for their season?" They might be happy to get to the semi-finals, but when push came to shove we were strictly a class below the top.

Herein lies a conundrum that extends right up to the Wallabies. Just how do we rate a team that clearly is off the pace when the individual players appear to be giving their all? 10/10 for effort maybe, but how do we rate for results and effectiveness?

Having watched the Bledisloe games It’s obvious that at this point in time Australian rugby is a class below the ABs and with their superior talent and depth this obviously transfers to better Super Rugby squads, so no, the NZ teams wouldn’t be satisfied. Despite this, after the doom and gloom at the start of the year, added to the poor result last year, winning the conference and a SF game in my opinion was positive. There’s work to be done, but it’s not like we’re a basket case


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[fatprop]

If I were a Canterbury supporter I'd keep my trap shut about the Tahs season, because they all know full well that the Crusaders should not have won that game.

Yep, but good sides do win those sides (against the odds working out a way to win)

 

[MACCA]

Interesting to see that the Eagles played HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) at THP and Paddy Ryan at LHP on the weekend. Someone told me at the SS grand final that one of the Rat props has been signed, but that’s third hand information


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hope the Tahs didn't sign the prop that Cam Betham "owned" when Randwick & Warringah played at Coogee oval.