Waratahs 2019

[Braveheart81]

You made some valid points, albeit ones I don't necessarily agree with, and then you said Whitakers CV is better, you cannot use his playing CV as a marker, its a totally different beast. He coached a D2 french team and they came 11th, his Rays team came 8th.
Cron took on a basket case of a team and missed out on finals by one spot, then went back to back (winners and finalist) and took the Rays from 2 wins ever to semi finals in his first year, I think Cron trumps Whitaker on the coaching CV.

I think the point is that, Waratahs are going to lose a very good coach and one that long term could have been a huge asset to the country. lets all hope its just fluff to get some clicks.

Come on the Tahs, but no confident for the weekend.

Whitaker had 6 years as an assistant coach at Leinster, Stade Francais and Narbonne before he become head co head coach of Montauban. That's the bit of the CV I'm saying is more impressive than Cron's.

I agree that what Cron did at Norths was fantastic but I think we would be making a significant mistake to decide that success at a Shute Shield club is a guide that he would be instantly successful as a Super Rugby head coach.

He is not very experienced.

 

[RubixCube]

He'd probably get paid a buttload more in Japan.

I wish i could work in Japan.

You can do whatever you want Derpus, just dream

 

[I like to watch]

We also had close to the worst scrum in the competition last year and this year it started off terribly as well.

I agree that Cron is highly promising but this concept that we should elevate him to head coach before he's ready so we don't lose him is also a problem.

People make the same argument about promising young players that we should select them for the Wallabies more often to encourage them not to leave.

The threat of leaving can't be an excuse for elevating someone before they're ready.

Cron shouldn't have been the Waratahs head coach this year and I'm also not sure he should have been elevated to head coach next year. If we lose him it will be a shame but it's also pretty clear he would have been a strong chance the year after. If waiting one more year is too much then how long would he have been head coach for anyway?

His CV is less impressive than Whitaker's.

What is there to suggest that elevating Cron to head coach won't come with the same problems with Gibson in his first couple of years or the same issues with Thorn now?

I’m not sure that Whitakers resume is more impressive.

In any case,on the job performance is more important than a resume.

Everything I see at the Tahs indicates that Cron is held in high esteem,something that can’t be gleaned by reading someone’s employment history.

You rightly point out that appointments shouldn’t be made under threat of losing people.
Equally,if you wait until people have unequivocally earned the right to be appointed,you will always be 2 years too late.
Player recruitment would be impossible with that logic.
With respect to Thorne, Cron is much more experienced.

 

[Braveheart81]

I’m not sure that Whitakers resume is more impressive.

In any case,on the job performance is more important than a resume.

Everything I see at the Tahs indicates that Cron is held in high esteem,something that can’t be gleaned by reading someone’s employment history.

You rightly point out that appointments shouldn’t be made under threat of losing people.
Equally,if you wait until people have unequivocally earned the right to be appointed,you will always be 2 years too late.
Player recruitment would be impossible with that logic.
With respect to Thorne, Cron is much more experienced.

I think experience is important and Cron is short on that. As an outside I would also have Cron as being the number one candidate to take over from Gibson in 2021.

I don't disagree with the choice that they appointed Gibson to continue as head coach in 2020. I think it was too early for Cron.

If we don't end up with Cron because he takes an offer overseas then so be it.

 

[Blackadder]

We also had close to the worst scrum in the competition last year and this year it started off terribly as well.



I agree that Cron is highly promising but this concept that we should elevate him to head coach before he's ready so we don't lose him is also a problem.



People make the same argument about promising young players that we should select them for the Wallabies more often to encourage them not to leave.



The threat of leaving can't be an excuse for elevating someone before they're ready.



Cron shouldn't have been the Waratahs head coach this year and I'm also not sure he should have been elevated to head coach next year. If we lose him it will be a shame but it's also pretty clear he would have been a strong chance the year after. If waiting one more year is too much then how long would he have been head coach for anyway?



His CV is less impressive than Whitaker's.



What is there to suggest that elevating Cron to head coach won't come with the same problems with Gibson in his first couple of years or the same issues with Thorn now?

The problem with the scrum comes down to the poor recruitment of Gibson of the Light and mobile pack. Light forwards trying to stop bigger/heavy units never works.

Whitaker is in charge of attack this year with all of his experience and the attack is rubbish.


I think Cron would eventually make an excellent head coach (Unlike the more experienced Gibson) but I agree rushing him in would be a mistake. If he holds on here then hopefully he is next in line.

 

[fatprop]

The problem with the scrum comes down to the poor recruitment of Gibson of the Light and mobile pack. Light forwards trying to stop bigger/heavy units never works.

Whitaker is in charge of attack this year with all of his experience and the attack is rubbish.


I think Cron would eventually make an excellent head coach (Unlike the more experienced Gibson) but I agree rushing him in would be a mistake. If he holds on here then hopefully he is next in line.

I would be quite amazed to see a world where Cron hasn't had a load of input into signings, but there is an argument that even Gibson was "rushed"

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem with the scrum comes down to the poor recruitment of Gibson of the Light and mobile pack. Light forwards trying to stop bigger/heavy units never works.

We've been consistently outscrummaged by teams that don't have a substantially heavier pack.

We've had Sekope Kepu and Rob Simmons who are renowned good scrummagers and last year we had another Wallaby in Tom Robertson in the front row.

We've consistently selected Damien Fitzpatrick above Tolu Latu even though Latu is a much better scrummager. We've also opted to field very light backrows with players like Will Miller (a Cron favourite) playing alongside Hooper.

I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that Cron is not onboard with who we have playing and are selecting. I also don't think one larger lock and a ball running number 8 are the difference between our current scrum being what it is and being one that is dominant.

 

[Strewthcobber]

A couple.of years as coach under Hanson as DofR is perfect for Cron's development at this stage of his career.

Tahs should be encouraging it and work out what it will take to bring him back after those two years

 

[Blackadder]

I would be quite amazed to see a world where Cron hasn't had a load of input into signings, but there is an argument that even Gibson was "rushed"

What signings for the forwards?

Le Reoux? Big hard running lock not getting a look in. The sunwolves game would have been the perfect opportunity to see what he has but instead Gibson brings back Staniforth . He has no go forward.

Week before McCauley who has no go forward.

Gibson is head coach he buys the players. Gibson is on record repeatedly wanting a light mobile pack

 

[Blackadder]

A couple.of years as coach under Hanson as DofR is perfect for Cron's development at this stage of his career.



Tahs should be encouraging it and work out what it will take to bring him back after those two years

Can they take Gibson too??

 

[Blackadder]

We've been consistently outscrummaged by teams that don't have a substantially heavier pack.



We've had Sekope Kepu and Rob Simmons who are renowned good scrummagers and last year we had another Wallaby in Tom Robertson in the front row.



We've consistently selected Damien Fitzpatrick above Tolu Latu even though Latu is a much better scrummager. We've also opted to field very light backrows with players like Will Miller (a Cron favourite) playing alongside Hooper.



I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that Cron is not onboard with who we have playing and are selecting. I also don't think one larger lock and a ball running number 8 are the difference between our current scrum being what it is and being one that is dominant.

Kepu is having a poor season and with the inexperienced other props he can't do it all.


Gibson picks light and mobile he is constantly saying it his game plan.

Miller?? Plays better than certain other forwards. He hasn't started this year until this week. He should have come on to give Hooper a rest as Hooper is carrying the side.

A big lock, a decent big 8 would certainly help but not what is selected/recruited.

 

[Braveheart81]

I just don't think you can completely excuse Cron from having any responsibility for the scrum because of the makeup of the squad or suggest that he has no input into who is in the squad and from that squad who is being selected.

I don't think given the same situation he would have done something completely different.

As I've discussed in the past, a lot of our squad, particularly our backrow is somewhat a matter of circumstance and restructuring our backrow in the last couple of years would have come at a huge cost.

 

[fatprop]

Kepu is having a poor season and with the inexperienced other props he can't do it all.


Gibson picks light and mobile he is constantly saying it his game plan.

Miller?? Plays better than certain other forwards. He hasn't started this year until this week. He should have come on to give Hooper a rest as Hooper is carrying the side.

A big lock, a decent big 8 would certainly help but not what is selected/recruited.

Miller has been injured,

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Kepu is having a poor season and with the inexperienced other props he can't do it all.


Gibson picks light and mobile he is constantly saying it his game plan.

Miller?? Plays better than certain other forwards. He hasn't started this year until this week. He should have come on to give Hooper a rest as Hooper is carrying the side.

A big lock, a decent big 8 would certainly help but not what is selected/recruited.

It seems all the Waratahs Wallabies (apart from Hooper) have had a slow start. Im hoping they are warming into the season.

 

[Up the Guts]

Can't really blame Cron for heading to Japan for better money/a more prestigious position. If he goes we should be keeping an eye on him and looking to bring him back as the HC in the future. We'll actually be able to make a less risky investment in the future if he does well as the top dog in another comp.

 

[Blackadder]

Miller has been injured,

Well aware of that. Braveheart was commenting on Miller playing alongside Hooper I said he wasn't playing in the run on as two light forwards

.

 

[Braveheart81]

Well aware of that. Braveheart was commenting on Miller playing alongside Hooper I said he wasn't playing in the run on as two light forwards

.

He did for pretty much all of last year though.

I think he will stay on the bench in our best 23 this year with Dempsey back but the premise still remains.

We could have opted to keep Holloway at 8, played Hanigan at 6 and play Simmons and another pure lock there to bolster our pack. We could have persisted with Latu as first choice to improve the scrum and ball carrying but we opted for Fitzpatrick for his lineout and workrate.

I agree with all of these choices as I think that puts a better overall team on the park. I would be incredibly surprised if Cron hasn't also been on board with these choices.

We're working with the squad we have and trying to put out the best team.

 

[Blackadder]

He did for pretty much all of last year though.



I think he will stay on the bench in our best 23 this year with Dempsey back but the premise still remains.



We could have opted to keep Holloway at 8, played Hanigan at 6 and play Simmons and another pure lock there to bolster our pack. We could have persisted with Latu as first choice to improve the scrum and ball carrying but we opted for Fitzpatrick for his lineout and workrate.



I agree with all of these choices as I think that puts a better overall team on the park. I would be incredibly surprised if Cron hasn't also been on board with these choices.



We're working with the squad we have and trying to put out the best team.

Are you saying Gibson is without blame? He wants the pack we have.

Le Roux should have been given a go by now. Not McCauley nor Staniforth who offer no go forward. If he failed he would still be ahead of these two.

Latu is too hot headed and gives away stupid penalties. I would not have even kept him. Yes he can scrummage but that is about it.

Hanigan has had a few good moments but is still Hanigan. Still does dumb things and drops the ball. He is not a lock so he shouldn't be there.

Gibson is the Boss it all rests on him.

The Tahs should not have re-signed him before a ball was kicked


I hope Cron stays as he is a coach of the future.

 

[Braveheart81]

Are you saying Gibson is without blame? He wants the pack we have.

Le Roux should have been given a go by now. Not McCauley nor Staniforth who offer no go forward. If he failed he would still be ahead of these two.

Latu is too hot headed and gives away stupid penalties. I would not have even kept him. Yes he can scrummage but that is about it.

Hanigan has had a few good moments but is still Hanigan. Still does dumb things and drops the ball. He is not a lock so he shouldn't be there.

Gibson is the Boss it all rests on him.

The Tahs should not have re-signed him before a ball was kicked

I hope Cron stays as he is a coach of the future.

No, I'm not saying Gibson is without blame. Just that you can't excuse Cron for everything that has gone wrong with our forwards but give him all the credit for things that have gone right.

I reckon Hanigan has had more than a few good moments this year. He's been one of our best forwards.

I wouldn't mind seeing Roets get a go off the bench but I feel like he's going to end up being a pointless signing who wasn't close to being ready to play Super Rugby.

I just think there weren't a lot of options on the table where the Tahs could have ended up with a significantly different squad to what they have now particularly in the forwards and if they had we would have had some huge holes elsewhere.

 

[Blackadder]

No, I'm not saying Gibson is without blame. Just that you can't excuse Cron for everything that has gone wrong with our forwards but give him all the credit for things that have gone right.



I reckon Hanigan has had more than a few good moments this year. He's been one of our best forwards.



I wouldn't mind seeing Roets get a go off the bench but I feel like he's going to end up being a pointless signing who wasn't close to being ready to play Super Rugby.



I just think there weren't a lot of options on the table where the Tahs could have ended up with a significantly different squad to what they have now particularly in the forwards and if they had we would have had some huge holes elsewhere.

I disagree.

Gibson wants the pack the Tahs have. He signs players accordingly so the belief of options on the table is wrong. Even if there were big, strong forwards Gibson would have kept the light and mobile as that is he mantra. We lost players but he kept light and mobile since he took over. Even prior to Cron arriving. The evidence is there to see. Look at the recruitment post Cheika and prior to Cron. Light and mobile pack.