Waratahs 2018

[Rugbynutter39]

My take on Gibson being reappointed for next year is pretty simple in that"
1. Tahs like any other oz super rugby side not in great financial shape and paying out a coach who has year to run means just extra cash drain for uncertain outcome...refer point 2.
2. In oz super rugby we have struggled to recruit decent coaches....do I really need to go there.....
3. We get Gibson motivated for a contract renewal and see how he goes without extra costs of paying out last year of contract for him plus wages for new coach and risks associated with that (refer point 2). Nothing much changes all good - we don't renew him....avoid the risk of looking silly on plus side of recruiting new coach who fails as well...as neater if cut Gibson at end of his contract and give someone else a go (which of course carries risk)

 

[TOCC]

Budgetary constraints as justification or reasoning for coaching selection is a ridiculous concept... coaches like players should be on ARU top-ups, good coaches are worth their weight in gold so why doesn't the ARU invest in them like they do in players, Australian Rugby suffers from a serious lack of investment in coaching, from coaching development to coaching retention. Many of the issues from Wallabies to grassroots could be resolved with decent investment in coaches.

IMO, coaching should be the number 1 priority for investment ahead of players and infrastructure, yet I doubt it even sits in the top 5 or 10 of ARU priorities

 

[I like to watch]

Delaying the replacement of a failed coach will cost more than you save in wages.
It puts the rebuild back an extra year, and continues to erode what is a fickle fan base.
Today's SS derby drew more paying customers than several of the Tahs games this year. that is unsustainable.

 

[jimmydubs]

coaches like players should be on ARU top-ups

I agree with the overall premise of your post, I e. Importance of quality coaches. But can you imagine the aru deciding who was worthy of a top up? It seems like it's hard enough to get rid of dead wood now.

I also have visions of Nathan grey on an a pocockesque sabbatical, getting paid $x00,000 to fanny about for a year.

 

[Gnostic]

Unless the "culture" at the Tahs (and Australian Rugby for that matter) is fixed and the nepotism is removed, that sees ex-players fixed as coaches of lower level sides, that sees promotions of coaches despite actual results, that sees players paid relatively large salaries yet consistently fail to improve their base skills and are apparently unfit along with other problems changing coaches will provide nothing but a false sense of hope.

I am supremely disappointed in the Tahs, but blaming Gibson solely when so many other coaches have shown exactly the same results (or near enough) just will not achieve anything.

Honestly if Gibson must be sacked without addressing the issues then Cheika (Larkham and Grey) must also be sacked from the Wallabies for exactly the same results, and nothing will be achieved in either case because the real root causes will remain.

 

[neilc]

Delaying the replacement of a failed coach will cost more than you save in wages.
It puts the rebuild back an extra year, and continues to erode what is a fickle fan base.
Today's SS derby drew more paying customers than several of the Tahs games this year. that is unsustainable.

Wow, are you saying that the SS derby drew 10,000 odd paying customers today (roughly the Waratahs lowest crowd)? That's a great achievement. We don't get anywhere near that in Qld. What is driving that crowd and what are the SS clubs doing to keep them coming back?

 

[I like to watch]

Wow, are you saying that the SS derby drew 10,000 odd paying customers today (roughly the Waratahs lowest crowd)? That's a great achievement. We don't get anywhere near that in Qld. What is driving that crowd and what are the SS clubs doing to keep them coming back?

Not quite, I did qualify it by saying paying customers.
7300 was the official crowd, which is a lot more reliable than that figures the Tahs claim.(and their 10k includes 000's of SCG members who don't pay)

The standard of the Comp has improved over past 5 years.
There was plenty of tribalism at play today.
You only needed to scan the southern end of the field to see all the inbreds had been given day release

 

[Quick Hands]

Wow, are you saying that the SS derby drew 10,000 odd paying customers today (roughly the Waratahs lowest crowd)? That's a great achievement. We don't get anywhere near that in Qld. What is driving that crowd and what are the SS clubs doing to keep them coming back?

People are voting with their feet. Many, many rugby followers are now disconnected from super rugby and with the elites and corporate hacks that run the ARU, NSWRU and QRU et al.

Club rugby provides and enjoyable afternoon of entertaining rugby with a bit of local tribalism thrown in.

 

[TOCC]

I agree with the overall premise of your post, I e. Importance of quality coaches. But can you imagine the aru deciding who was worthy of a top up? It seems like it's hard enough to get rid of dead wood now.

I also have visions of Nathan grey on an a pocockesque sabbatical, getting paid $x00,000 to fanny about for a year.

Yes this will be a risk, especially with the nepotistic culture which exists within Australian Rugby... But, perhaps it would see quality coaches like Matt Taylor retained on Australian shores, perhaps it would further encourage some budding coaches to take it up as an actual career.

 

[neilc]

Not quite, I did qualify it by saying paying customers.
7300 was the official crowd, which is a lot more reliable than that figures the Tahs claim.(and their 10k includes 000's of SCG members who don't pay)

The standard of the Comp has improved over past 5 years.
There was plenty of tribalism at play today.
You only needed to scan the southern end of the field to see all the inbreds had been given day release

That is a very impressive crowd, good to hear. Are SS matches generally getting strong crowds like that or was there something special about this match? I'm in Brisbane so don't know the setup for SS.

 

[Silverado]

That is a very impressive crowd, good to hear. Are SS matches generally getting strong crowds like that or was there something special about this match? I'm in Brisbane so don't know the setup for SS.

One of the more intense local derbies.Battle of the Northern beaches. Manly has been around for ever and Rats formed in the 1960s and matter where they finish on the table, a win over their neighbors is important. Good to see them both at the pointy end rather than the usual suspects


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[Quick Hands]

That is a very impressive crowd, good to hear. Are SS matches generally getting strong crowds like that or was there something special about this match? I'm in Brisbane so don't know the setup for SS.

Manly and Warringah have been getting 5,000 plus to the derby for quite a few years now, but it's been getting bigger every year. (last 2-3 years have been 7,000 or more)

Both clubs would also get 3,000 plus to games against other highly ranked clubs most home games.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Yes this will be a risk, especially with the nepotistic culture which exists within Australian Rugby. But, perhaps it would see quality coaches like Matt Taylor retained on Australian shores, perhaps it would further encourage some budding coaches to take it up as an actual career.

TOCC please take this is a general comment and not something just directed at you. I really get annoyed when people talk about Australian coaches and refer to Matt Taylor. Most of this is on the back of what people remember he did with the Reds nearly 7 years ago. You might be much more knowledgeable about how he has faired in the Scottish domestic comp but most arent. Was it him or Cotter that made Scotland better over the past few seasons. I seem to think that when players or coaches go overseas people only remember what they did in Australia. Genia is another prime example of this.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Honestly if Gibson must be sacked without addressing the issues then Cheika (Larkham and Grey) must also be sacked from the Wallabies for exactly the same results, and nothing will be achieved in either case because the real root causes will remain.

The problem with Gibson is, however, that he endeavoured to provide an explanation ("I thought we had the cattle....it turned out we didn't") that is just plain ridiculous.
If thats the best he can come up with then he's not a fit and proper person to coach them next year because he has been in and around that roster since 2012 and if he misread them to that extent he does not know what he's doing.

 

[Quick Hands]

The problem with Gibson is, however, that he endeavoured to provide an explanation ("I thought we had the cattle..it turned out we didn't") that is just plain ridiculous.
If thats the best he can come up with then he's not a fit and proper person to coach them next year because he has been in and around that roster since 2012 and if he misread them to that extent he does not know what he's doing.

And then we have the captain coming out last week and admitting that some of the players weren't fit enough and implying that at least some of them didn't have what it takes to succeed at this level. And Gibson agrees and says that some of the players were "out of shape".

I can hardly think of a more damning indictment of a professional coach. FFS, isn't it his job to make sure that the programme and the culture are in place to ensure that neither of these things occur.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...n/news-story/689feef1c22ea7a6ffbe0391a5e07670

 

[Highlander35]

TOCC please take this is a general comment and not something just directed at you. I really get annoyed when people talk about Australian coaches and refer to Matt Taylor. Most of this is on the back of what people remember he did with the Reds nearly 7 years ago. You might be much more knowledgeable about how he has faired in the Scottish domestic comp but most arent. Was it him or Cotter that made Scotland better over the past few seasons. I seem to think that when players or coaches go overseas people only remember what they did in Australia. Genia is another prime example of this.

Glasgow 3 seasons Before Matt Taylor

7th, 3rd, 11th

Glasgow all seasons after Matt Taylor

4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 6th

Approximately at the same time Gregor Townsend came on the scene, but to me, that just says they work very well together and it'll be a pain in the butt to separate them (given he'd have a little bit of loyalty to my mob anyway, with about 5 seasons playing in Scotland, and a couple of A caps too!)


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[Jimmy_Crouch]

Glasgow 3 seasons Before Matt Taylor

7th, 3rd, 11th

Glasgow all seasons after Matt Taylor

4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 6th

Approximately at the same time Gregor Townsend came on the scene, but to me, that just says they work very well together and it'll be a pain in the butt to separate them (given he'd have a little bit of loyalty to my mob anyway, with about 5 seasons playing in Scotland, and a couple of A caps too!)


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Thanks Highlander appreciate the detail however do get my point? I think coaching overseas is a great development tool I'm just not sure people always know before dropping names. Lots of people (including the guys on the podcasts) don't even watch super rugby let alone European stuff.

 

[TOCC]

Thanks Highlander appreciate the detail however do get my point? I think coaching overseas is a great development tool I'm just not sure people always know before dropping names. Lots of people (including the guys on the podcasts) don't even watch super rugby let alone European stuff.

Yes I get your point..
is it applicable in this situation? Is Matt Taylor not a coach worthy of retaining in Australia?

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

TOCC I'm not sure to be honest as I haven't followed him/his career enough. Does he have much head coaching experience? I would imagine he'd only come home for a super rugby head coaching gig. Certainly has more runs on the board than big Morgs who is tipped to be the rebels new coach.

 

[W-TARED]

The problem with Gibson is, however, that he endeavoured to provide an explanation ("I thought we had the cattle..it turned out we didn't") that is just plain ridiculous..

I hope Cron has "checked the roster/cattle" that he is taking on, very disapointing if we hear the same crap in a couple of years time, when he takes over.