Waratahs 2018

[mst]

There are plenty on GAGR to criticise Cheika's selections, tactics etc, but you can't argue with what he does with the culture of a side. It was evident in the Tahs under him, and it was evident in the Wallabies during the WC. And at the moment, I would take a coach who can instill the right culture into the Tahs over a master tactician every day.

Actually on the culture side you can. His coaching record indicates that his systems works for about 1 season than has issues and drops off and needs changes to reignite it. His success also seem to rely on who he brings in to assist him.

 

[Froggy]

I couldn't disagree more MST. Firstly, the Tahs didn't win in his first season, but his second, and were finalists in the third. He also didn't win the cup with Leinster in year one, but again built to it.
As to who he brought with him, when he came to the Tahs he brought Grey and Gibson, so you're telling me that's why he succeeded? Give me a break!
I know form previous posts you don't think a lot of Cheika, and in terms of tactics and team selection you have some reasonable arguments, but we are going to have to disagree on the culture issue.

 

[TOCC]

I think for the most part Cheika has done well for the culture of the team, that been said i don't agree with some areas of his management, i think he has handed Wallabies jerseys/squad positions out too easy on a few occasions to players who hadn't yet earned the right or weren't the form player in their positions, and i also don't agree with bringing players back from Europe for every test match(i would accept exceptions to this in a RWC year).

 

[mst]

I couldn't disagree more MST. Firstly, the Tahs didn't win in his first season, but his second, and were finalists in the third. He also didn't win the cup with Leinster in year one, but again built to it.
As to who he brought with him, when he came to the Tahs he brought Grey and Gibson, so you're telling me that's why he succeeded? Give me a break!
I know form previous posts you don't think a lot of Cheika, and in terms of tactics and team selection you have some reasonable arguments, but we are going to have to disagree on the culture issue.

Happy to disagree. I was only going off history which shows one successful year in most of his tenures. History also says one of the feature of his coaching appointments has been the people he personally brought in. Most of his tenures ended with the teams on a downward performance trajectory.

My recent comments and opinions are around his current performance. In his current tenure I am not a fan. In his past I admire what he did with the Tahs to a degree.

 

[cyclopath]

Happy to disagree. I was only going off history which shows one successful year in most of his tenures. History also says one of the feature of his coaching appointments has been the people he personally brought in. Most of his tenures ended with the teams on a downward performance trajectory.

My recent comments and opinions are around his current performance. In his current tenure I am not a fan. In his past I admire what he did with the Tahs to a degree.

Didn't he bring Larkham, Ledesma and Grey into the group for RWC 2015? I guess the downwards trajectory is catching among the group. Who did he bring in at Leinster - I don't watch much NH club rugby?

 

[Braveheart81]

Most of his tenures ended with the teams on a downward performance trajectory.

That is the case with almost every coaching tenure at the top level. It's generally why they lose their jobs.

 

[mst]

Didn't he bring Larkham, Ledesma and Grey into the group for RWC 2015? I guess the downwards trajectory is catching among the group. Who did he bring in at Leinster - I don't watch much NH club rugby?

David Knox then Allen Gaffney. I like your observation and it's something that occurs in business. The quick results come at the expense if long-term success and stability. Same as drafting in superstars for a year.when they go you have to start rebuilding from scratch again.

 

[mst]

That is the case with almost every coaching tenure at the top level. It's generally why they lose their jobs.

That's s broad brush and I would question the veracity of such s statement. I don't know if he was pushed ot jumped, I think jumped. IIRC 3yrs was his longest tenure at a club.

 

[fatprop]

This thread has already jumped the shark in July 2017, from now now on we can go in two different ways.

1/ It can turn into a positive look forward to the stellar opportunity that will be the 2018 season (until it starts and reality hits). This is colloquially known as the "reds gambit" and it can keep me from beating employees Or;

2/ The Tahs, and their current players, their future players, their current coaching regime, their past coaches and players, their children will all be discovered through detailed research and absorbing analysis to have taken part in every sporting disaster over the past 100 years. If this occurs the there is likely to be some very sad, cringing employees

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^^ I would expect a huge amount of negativity, given the hapless way they finished a terrible season only days ago.

You go first, on what basis can we expect things to turn around dramatically next season? (they need to win more than double the number of wins this season,just to win more than they lose)

New coaches?
New marquis signings?
Signed any superstar kids?

 

[Blackadder]

lets get back to signings. I think the Tahs need to sign two monster locks, a strong prop and a centre.

 

[Sauron]

^^^^^ I would expect a huge amount of negativity, given the hapless way they finished a terrible season only days ago.

You go first, on what basis can we expect things to turn around dramatically next season? (they need to win more than double the number of wins this season,just to win more than they lose)

New coaches?
New marquis signings?
Signed any superstar kids?

Surely the typical 'Tahs policy of selecting blue-bloods needn't go this far.

 

[Micheal]

lets get back to signings. I think the Tahs need to sign two monster locks, a strong prop and a centre.

I also think, like our second rowers, our backrow is all wrong.

Dempsey, Hanigan, Holloway, Hooper and Wells are too light collectively.

We need a bruiser like Timani at 8 and an enforcer like Coleman at 5 to even things out.

 

[I like to watch]

lets get back to signings. I think the Tahs need to sign two monster locks, a strong prop and a centre.

And a 10, but who? From where?
It's not an easy fix.

 

[fatprop]

^^^^^ I would expect a huge amount of negativity, given the hapless way they finished a terrible season only days ago.

You go first, on what basis can we expect things to turn around dramatically next season? (they need to win more than double the number of wins this season,just to win more than they lose)

New coaches?
New marquis signings?
Signed any superstar kids?

Being a Tahs supporter, simples

 

[fatprop]

And a 10, but who? From where?
It's not an easy fix.

Why get rid of the best 10 in the country?

 

[mst]

This thread has already jumped the shark in July 2017, from now now on we can go in two different ways.

1/ It can turn into a positive look forward to the stellar opportunity that will be the 2018 season (until it starts and reality hits). This is colloquially known as the "reds gambit" and it can keep me from beating employees Or;

2/ The Tahs, and their current players, their future players, their current coaching regime, their past coaches and players, their children will all be discovered through detailed research and absorbing analysis to have taken part in every sporting disaster over the past 100 years. If this occurs the there is likely to be some very sad, cringing employees

Hi and welcome You must be new here.

You got the answer correct with your second point:

2/ The Tahs, and their current players, their future players, their current coaching regime, their past coaches and players, their children will all be discovered through detailed research and absorbing analysis to have taken part in every sporting disaster over the past 100 years. If this occurs the there is likely to be some very sad, cringing employees

Aside from the anomaly of 2014 it appears the Tah have moved on from the under performance status quo they had establish over nearly two decades to a new level of under performance progressively since 2015.

As one of the most heavily topped up teams financially, and with that a perception of receiving favourable treatments, mixed in with a climate of rugby in general suffering performance issues and financial issues key (only) success of the Waratahs in 2017 is become the poster child of what’s wrong with rugby in the country.

As an example of what to expect, most will focus the fact that in 2018 the ARU will top up the Tahs more with further imports (even though potentially 20% of the Aussie Super Rugby players will lose their jobs due to cutbacks) with the key facilitator being the ex- Tahs coach and now Wallabies coach. This seem to be the only performance improvement measure that is know at this time.

Again welcome and feel free to contribute to the discussion.

 

[I like to watch]

Why get rid of the best 10 in the country?

Sorry, meant back up/succession planning.

 

[MACCA]

And a 10, but who? From where?
It's not an easy fix.

A 10 ?- Tahs have one (Andrew Deegan) and according to the rumour mill are letting him go

 

[Micheal]

I think with Foley, Beale, Hegarty and Mason all covering 10 we should be fine for next year.

If Deegan is going, I can't blame him, as he wouldn't get time in the Tahs franchise unless an injury crisis hit.

In his place we could pick up another Shute Shield 10 cheap to provide depth. I'd like a ~25 year old seasoned campaigner who could realistically step in if required. Any candidates?