Waratahs 2018

[Up the Guts]

We did not lose Ponga to league. Apparently he had been signed up by Brisbane Lions on a four year contract, he had been on their books from the age of 15 apparently, according to a report in today's SMH. Anyway, if he ever does decide to play our game, he will undoubtedly aspire to be an All Black, not a Wallaby.


Crichton, from what I can discern, was also always in big demand in league, and we all know what that means. Big bucks from an early age.

We cannot, and should not, try to match this.

Agree to the extent that we can't match the money from League but I see no issue with Super Rugby Clubs at least sitting down and discussing with young stars what their options are, inviting them to train, and other things of that nature. You can still try to keep players in the game even without the promise of big bucks. I saw Ponga play in the 15s for Churchie and it was clear then he would make it in AFL, League, or Union. At a school with such strong rugby connections like Churchie I would think RA or Super Rugby Clubs would have a more evident plan to keep that type of player in the game.

 

[sidelineview]

Agree to the extent that we can't match the money from League but I see no issue with Super Rugby Clubs at least sitting down and discussing with young stars what their options are, inviting them to train, and other things of that nature. You can still try to keep players in the game even without the promise of big bucks. I saw Ponga play in the 15s for Churchie and it was clear then he would make it in AFL, League, or Union. At a school with such strong rugby connections like Churchie I would think RA or Super Rugby Clubs would have a more evident plan to keep that type of player in the game.

I agree. There should be strong competition for players from the rugby bodies. They should be proactive and have a retention plan in place.
Young super stars like Ponga will probably always take the cash on offer from league but not all of the many promising schoolboy players will attract offers from league.

The fact is there is the promise of earning good money down the track and it can be a smart move by young players to establish themselves in rugby first.

 

[Braveheart81]

The challenge is picking who to throw money at.

Sometimes it is blindingly obvious who the future superstar will be. Sometimes it isn't.

At the end of the day the player has to want to stay in rugby. I don't think we have to make the biggest offer. Just a decent enough offer that makes it a reasonable option to stay in their preferred sport of rugby than take more money from league.

If the player isn't fussed on which sport they sign for or prefers league I don't think there is any point trying to compete there.

 

[Up the Guts]

The challenge is picking who to throw money at.

Sometimes it is blindingly obvious who the future superstar will be. Sometimes it isn't.

At the end of the day the player has to want to stay in rugby. I don't think we have to make the biggest offer. Just a decent enough offer that makes it a reasonable option to stay in their preferred sport of rugby than take more money from league.

If the player isn't fussed on which sport they sign for or prefers league I don't think there is any point trying to compete there.

Yeah I'm not sure you need to throw the money at them necessarily when they are 15. At that age just getting in touch and inviting them to a training session can be enough.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah I'm not sure you need to throw the money at them necessarily when they are 15. At that age just getting in touch and inviting them to a training session can be enough.

Paying the fees to send some kid to a top private school, with the back up of a decent physical development program could be seen to develop solid loyalty as well

 

[Up the Guts]

Paying the fees to send some kid to a top private school, with the back up of a decent physical development program could be seen to develop solid loyalty as well

Granted, but we can still try even if we can't compete on that sort of level.

 

[sidelineview]

Granted, but we can still try even if we can't compete on that sort of level.

You never never know if you never never go

 

[RugbyReg]

Did we really lose Ponga to league or were we just borrowing him for a couple of years while he did schooling on scholarship?

 

[Braveheart81]

Did we really lose Ponga to league or were we just borrowing him for a couple of years while he did schooling on scholarship?

Based on this from Wikipedia he was always going to play league.

Born in Port Hedland, Western Australia, Ponga is of Māori descent through his New Zealand-born father, Andre.[4] He lived with his family in Mount Isa, Queensland as a child before moving to Palmerston North, New Zealand in 2006, spending five years there, where he played a number of sports, including rugby league, touch football, hockey, rugby union, golf, and soccer. In 2010, he won New Zealand's under-13 national golf championship.[5]
In 2011, Ponga and his family returned to Australia, settling in Mackay, where he attended Mackay State High School, where he was a member of the Rugby League Academy program, and played junior rugby league for Souths Mackay. Also in 2011, he was signed to a scholarship with the Central Queensland NRL bid side. In 2012, he was selected for the Australian Schoolboys under-15 side, becoming just the second 14-year old to make the side.[5]
In 2013, Ponga, then a scholarship holder with the Brisbane Broncos, moved to Brisbane. He attended Anglican Church Grammar School and played for the Easts Tigers in the Cyril Connell Cup. That year he made the Australian Schoolboys under-15 side for the second consecutive year.[6][7]
In December 2013, Ponga signed a contract with the North Queensland Cowboys. He was pursued by six professional clubs from across three different sports, turning down the Broncos, Melbourne Storm, Sydney Roosters, Queensland Reds and Brisbane Lions to sign with the Townsville-based NRL club.

 

[Up the Guts]

Did we really lose Ponga to league or were we just borrowing him for a couple of years while he did schooling on scholarship?

I think it’s a fair assessment to say we borrowed him but we could have made more of a a play for him when we had him. I don’t think I’ve seen a better schoolboy player since I saw him in a one off shortened format game in the under 15s.

 

[neilc]

I think a lot of these league kids who get poached by rugby schools to boost their teams are on contracts with NRL clubs already so are not really being 'lost' by rugby, just returned as Reg points out - kind of like a library book.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I think a lot of these league kids who get poached by rugby schools to boost their teams are on contracts with NRL clubs already so are not really being 'lost' by rugby, just returned as Reg points out - kind of like a library book.

100% agree. I know that is what the Storm do with kids in NZ. Pay the school fees and let them play First XV. They know that the programs are solid and then bring them over once they finish school.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

The Woollahra Hotel has released a statement saying they will no longer allow cows into their establishment. Chickens and other assorted farmyard animals are OK, but not cows.

Goes without saying. There are a lot of cocks in that place.

wftt, zero likes for this?

Picked up on the half-volley, straight over long on and into the drink

 

[charlesalan]

Home and Away and Home and Away - NSFW v any NZ team - its a new soapy guaranteed to bring tears and heartbreak - coming to you every weekend starting at Brookvale

 

[Gnostic]

The "throwing money at " and picking emerging future stars is a closed path as I have said. We get players like Beale, self entitled twats who misbehave and is not as good as the hype and still after all these years has not worked sufficiently on his defence or the other lacking aspects of his game.

We get stars like Folau, who cannot execute basic passing skills to club level, we get 100+ test Wallabies like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the same boat.

"Throwing money" at the newest "big thing" will get mediocrity unless there is also incentive to develop the skills. If that meas they do not back themselves to make it fine, let them go and play league and limit their earnings and future potential choices that world wide rugby offers. At this stage since professionalism no such prodigal player has been worth the money invested in them over what would have been produced if that money had been used to support and develop the systems at the Grass roots and actually develop the premiership competitions into a genuine third tier not the ridiculous rubbish that is the ARC/NRC.

 

[The torpedo]

The Woollahra Hotel has released a statement saying they will no longer allow cows into their establishment.
Chickens and other assorted farmyard animals are OK, but not cows.

EDIT: shit I completely forgot.

I am ashamed

 

[Derpus]

So, putting aside all the structural problems rife throughout Australian rugby, what can we do to turn this craptrain around?

Personally, not that fussed if Folau leaves. We can use that money to buy a forward pack. I think we need a (in order of priority):

1. Coach
2. Hooker
3. Second rower x 2 (of the heavier variety)
4. 8
5. 6

Our back-line is loaded with talent, don't need to change much there. They just need some service.

 

[Jamie]

I tend to agree, perhaps not necessarily a head coach of sorts but someone that can add value to the coaching staff as a whole, ideally a defence coach.

To be completely honest it will have to be someone outside the usual channels, and as much as I hate to say it needs to be an OS coach, in saying this we need to start grooming the coaching ranks whilst we bring OS coaches into the system. We need new ideas.

I mentioned in another post that if we had a Palu or even a Skelton on Saturday we would have gotten over the line, also yes we do have lots of talent but it really worries me that the only option is Foley (Who I like). We need to start giving that Mason kid some game time.

 

[Tomikin]

The "throwing money at " and picking emerging future stars is a closed path as I have said. We get players like Beale, self entitled twats who misbehave and is not as good as the hype and still after all these years has not worked sufficiently on his defence or the other lacking aspects of his game.

We get stars like Folau, who cannot execute basic passing skills to club level, we get 100+ test Wallabies like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the same boat.

"Throwing money" at the newest "big thing" will get mediocrity unless there is also incentive to develop the skills. If that meas they do not back themselves to make it fine, let them go and play league and limit their earnings and future potential choices that world wide rugby offers. At this stage since professionalism no such prodigal player has been worth the money invested in them over what would have been produced if that money had been used to support and develop the systems at the Grass roots and actually develop the premiership competitions into a genuine third tier not the ridiculous rubbish that is the ARC/NRC.

Matt Giteu did alright Tongan Thors going well, Poeys not bad either. You make it sound like we never had young superstars do well Beale while a twat is still a bloody good player who has been in the running for world player of the year..But we should let them go to league...

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

 

[Gnostic]

Matt Giteu did alright Tongan Thors going well, Poeys not bad either. You make it sound like we never had young superstars do well Beale while a twat is still a bloody good player who has been in the running for world player of the year..But we should let them go to league.



Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

Beale World Player of the year FFS, defence optional (if improved of an extremely low base) unreliable/inconsistent passing, kicking and decision making. Giteau - well he was brilliant at times, so was James O'Connor, Quade and any number of other players. Pocock is no in the same company as McCaw or Smith and really has to develop the other aspects of his game, not a bad example of what I have been saying.

My point is picking a few exceptionally talents players with an outstanding skill like Folau's high ball skill has been an abject failure for 20 years. Why, simply because without complete skill sets in a side it is easy to pick them apart. The Wallabies and other Australian sides are fundamentally flawed in this way. The Tahs on the weekend for instance had maybe one player who can kick effectively in the back 3 and maybe two in the whole back line Foley and perhaps Cam Clarke.

If they want to go to league because they do not want to do the work to achieve the rest of their skills required in Rugby, fine goodbye, the Tahs and Wallabies will be better served by having players who want to better their skills (and need coaches and a system who can do it) than people who do not improve those skills over the better part of a decade in the Pro game.

I do not accept that our players have less potential than other nations, what they do have is development and if we need to ditch the big names who don't really perform to their potential to achieve a system that really develops those players fine.