Waratahs 2017

[gowaratahs]

Yeah, we did ourselves no favours. Robinson's binning was an awful lack of judgement that cost us two tries - and then with Kepu off Reece didn't realise he had to defend off the back of scrum to gift the Lions another. I thought 2 of the Lions tries in the 1st half were suspect too, I don't think they grounded the first and the strip of Lucas should've been a knock on for mine.

Toleafoa was fucking dreadful, as ineffective as he was in the NRC. Can't tackle, no workrate either. I just cannot fathom how they upgraded his contract.

Latu was awesome and had marginal calls against him, and Kellaway had one of his best runs yet (I'm not usually a fan). Dempsey really stood up too. Hegarty showed he is a very good backup flyhalf, if not quite brilliant - though his selfish Beale-like gamble chip led to a fine solo try. Folau is being stifled... send him back to the back three - please! And I need to see Simone with more quality ball before I'll rate him at Super level - though his defence was suspect last night.

Foley is headed home to Aus with recurring headaches, let's hope for a proper recovery for his sake. Secondary to his welfare is the problem of Horwitz getting more game time, again last night he showed he's a good Shute Shielder at best. I'd rather see Deegan get a run, and he's not ready.

Naiyaravoro is an interesting one. He's big, fast, powerful and dangerous, that's for sure - you've got to wonder if he can be used differently for greater effect. Remains a yellow-card just waiting to happen.

Finally Lolohea needs scrum practice, though I noticed he hits very hard in defence and doesn't shy away from work. Play him at lock if Skelton isn't ready next week, he'd do better than Toleafoa.

 

[GTPIH]

I recall the commentators mentioning that the Tahs had a penalty advantage when Hegarty did his chip. I hope so because it was a ridiculous place to do it

 

[A mutterer]

I recall the commentators mentioning that the Tahs had a penalty advantage when Hegarty did his chip. I hope so because it was a ridiculous place to do it

we did.

anyway, for me grey needs to stand up and admit his coaching and defensive systems have been picked apart for over a year now, at soup and international level.

 

[formerflanker]

we did.

anyway, for me grey needs to stand up and admit his coaching and defensive systems have been picked apart for over a year now, at soup and international level.

The last time I looked in-depth at defence strategies, John Muggleton's influence was writ large.
How have things changed since then? I still see man on man and drift defence being used, and adjustments being made for second wave attack.
My question is really what is more important, positioning of the defenders, or skill and attitude of the defenders, or reading the attack?

 

[I like to watch]

My question is really what is more important, positioning of the defenders, or skill and attitude of the defenders, or reading the attack?

They are all essential!
It's an ensemble.
Everyone says defence is all about attitude, but it's no good having a great attitude and coming up with fresh air all the time.

 

[Jimmyjam]

It was a pretty ordinary defensive effort. Everyone who's played the game knows attitude is a huge component, but even more important is trust in the other guys in the line. That only comes after combinations and time together on the park build. I'm not excusing it, but a number of times (with the benefit of Foxtel replays) after I'd re watched a missed tackle, it seemed to me that it was more about indecision for a split second. This lead usually very reliable defenders (like Horne) to miss a few that they would normally make in their sleep. Too many new faces and the trust won't be there. Looking at the Jo berg squad compared to their best 23 and I'd say that coming up against a very good team at altitude with so many key players out they were always going to struggle. If we could have included the likes of Holloway, Hanigan, Skelton, Phipps, Foley, Wilkin, we may have gotten a very different result, at least a lot closer. We were well into the supplementary squad with some of our bench options (indicative of having 4 back 5 players unavailable). All would be in our best 23 and highly likely would have defended the rolling maul much better.

 

[fatprop]

It highlights what happens to Aus sides short of their starters

Not just a load of inexperienced starters, but the real green bench that follows

 

[A mutterer]

The last time I looked in-depth at defence strategies, John Muggleton's influence was writ large.
How have things changed since then? I still see man on man and drift defence being used, and adjustments being made for second wave attack.
My question is really what is more important, positioning of the defenders, or skill and attitude of the defenders, or reading the attack?

its a fair enough question and im not sure there's an easy answer. but the 1st part of the equation has to be making contact, and making it HARD contact.

something we really lacked for much of the game. tbf, most of the past season or so.

 

[hammertimethere]

Two things from my perspective;
- Hegarty is an able Foley replacement. Executes the Tahs attacking shape more than adequately but is less of a threat all in hand (chip and chase on the weekend not withstanding. He did have advantage at the time so well timed and executed).
- the Tahs are playing busy but not particularly physical. You would have been better off not expecting too much from Simone early. Horne to 12 and the Shithouse to 11 to shoulder some of the violent meter gaining work + the return of Holloway and Skelton hopefully should help.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Heart felt best wishes go out Bernard Foley.

Hope he recovers quickly and only returns when it is safe for him to do so.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Heart felt best wishes go out Bernard Foley.

Hope he recovers quickly and only returns when it is safe for him to do so.

How many head knocks has he had?

Is this a cumulative thing or from one big knock?

We really need to think about how we handle our inside backs in this country/sport. Way too many early retirements from those concussions.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^
I wonder if, at some point in time, it will be compulsory for all players to wear some type of soft headgear (as opposed to fucking helmets in American Football).

The game doesn't need to get "softer" so maybe we need to protect the players , all players.

 

[sidelineview]

^^^^^
I wonder if, at some point in time, it will be compulsory for all players to wear some type of soft headgear (as opposed to fucking helmets in American Football).

The game doesn't need to get "softer" so maybe we need to protect the players , all players.

Numerous studies have been undertaken in different codes and the conclusion is that headgear doesn't reduce the rate of head injury or concussion, even though you'd assume it would make a difference.

The general consensus is that headgear only prevents head wounds and abrasions.

The management of head injuries has improved out of sight with Clubs having to follow strict procedures concerning concussed players.

I dont think a player can return to contact training or play before a couple of weeks is up depending on their age.
19 days for Under 18s and 12 days for over 18s. Something like that.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Yep - it's got to the point where Olympic boxers don't wear headgear anymore because they actually increased concussion

The data Adams spoke of came primarily from two studies published in 2013 by the AIBA and the British Journal of Sports Medicine, both of which found that headgear not only doesn’t decrease the chance of concussions and lasting brain trauma in fighters; it increases it.
In the AIBA study, Charles Butler, the chairman of the association’s medical commission, studied 15,000 boxers, half of whom had competed with headgear and half of whom had competed without. He found that in the 7,352 rounds that took place with boxers wearing headgear, the rate of concussion was 0.38 per cent, compared with 0.17 per cent in the 7,545 rounds without headgear. The study found that headgear’s protective padding can cause extra jarring to fighters’ heads, give them a false sense of security, and make it more difficult to see punches coming, all of which can lead to brain damage.

Anyway, sorry for the thread derail.
Any news on when Foley might be back, or is it an indefinite kind of thing?

 

[Braveheart81]

Anyway, sorry for the thread derail.
Any news on when Foley might be back, or is it an indefinite kind of thing?

No news yet since he returned and saw the neurologist (which was presumably today).

I'd certainly be more concerned if he doesn't make a return for round 4 at home against the Brumbies.

I don't think he has a history of head knocks and can't remember him missing a game due to a concussion in the past. Certainly the cause of this concussion against the Highlanders wasn't overly memorable.

 

[amirite]

Some head knocks linger and some don't.

I've had two (which probably explains a lot if you've seen my posts) and one lingered for a week or two and I felt rusty, whereas the other one I instantly felt fine after. Funnily enough, I only lost consciousness in the latter.

I'd say it's very likely he'll be fine long-term. Berrick is doing fine after all.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

We had a kid back when I coached who was slammed off the ball and received a concussion. He had to sit out the rest of the season (which was about 6 weeks at the time) with headaches. Overall it took a couple of months for him to fully recover.

 

[Scrubber2050]

It's great to see positive action in respect of player welfare on concussions.

Back in the day I played Union and League to a unreasonable level. When a bloke got a head knock or even knocked out the good old Strapper (usually an old bloke at the club with zero qualifications except free piss after the game) would attend the injured player and jam a bottle of smelling salts up the nose. Your eyes would "water", your legs would 'twitch" and a few seconds later you re-entered the fray.

Strapper would also give you a suck on the filthy sponge (that everyone else had sucked on ) and you were definitely OK to play.

Thankfully I survived, as most did but it was pretty rough.

A lot of the older more mature posters would have experience the same thing

 

[barbarian]

I've seen some of your posts, Scrub, and I'm not sure you did 'survive'

 

[Froggy]

Agree Scrubber,
I recall getting ko'd, went to the sideline, had a couple of stitches put in the back of my head, a bit of strapping around it and back on I went.
The stupid thing in those days was, it was nearly cool to be able to say you could remember nothing of the second half! Frightening to think of the amount of early onset dementia, Parkinsons etc that those attitudes may have pre-disposed people to!