Waratahs 2017

[Braveheart81]

I know he was injured last year but I presumed he was better by now.

Apologies. Holloway has recovered from the shoulder surgery but is out with a hamstring injury.

Will miss round one but likely to return after that.

 

[amirite]

Apologies. Holloway has recovered from the shoulder surgery but is out with a hamstring injury.

Will miss round one but likely to return after that.

That's good. I actually he could be a good 6 in the Australian set-up in time.

Obviously, he's a good ball-handler at the back of the scrum, but the Wallabies want a blunt force at 8 (Timani/Poey) running in the middle channel, and they want their 6s playing on the edge. Holloway is GREAT on the edge.

Of course, the Wallabies could completely change their patterns as well. We shall see.

 

[MACCA]

i think its endemic of rugby within NSW. look at the u20s program. players are selected on past schoolboy status yet others may progress faster. Miller would not look out of play in super rugby..

Yes! and once you miss Under 20s you have bugger all chance of going to Super rugby in Australia.

 

[barbarian]

Don't I know it Macca. I never made Under 20s, and have been unable to get one fucking second of attention from the selectors since.

"We don't go to Subbies games" they say to me. Well maybe if you got off your short-sighted fat behinds you might actually discover that there's a bloke in the second row for 4th grade who can take the Waratahs to the next level......

It's a bloody debacle Macca.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Like the Reds used to have the Ballymore Kid, maybe the Waratahs should have the Hard-Done-By Old -Timer where they offer a one year Super Rugby contract to a player 27 years or older who has never played a Super Rugby game.

I'm still not sure who exactly these multitude of players who have never gained selection at younger age groups are who are now dominant rugby players.

 

[MACCA]

Like the Reds used to have the Ballymore Kid, maybe the Waratahs should have the Hard-Done-By Old -Timer where they offer a one year Super Rugby contract to a player 27 years or older who has never played a Super Rugby game.

I'm still not sure who exactly these multitude of players who have never gained selection at younger age groups are who are now dominant rugby players.

Like the Reds used to have the Ballymore Kid, maybe the Waratahs should have the Hard-Done-By Old -Timer where they offer a one year Super Rugby contract to a player 27 years or older who has never played a Super Rugby game.

I'm still not sure who exactly these multitude of players who have never gained selection at younger age groups are who are now dominant rugby players.

Ed Gower? Jarred Barry? Hugh Perret? David Feltsher, the Batgers, The Souths centre, atinipulu? No one from Easts although you do have a Lock in the Waratahs whom I has played maybe one first grade game but starred for Scots College... Heaps of Uni & Wicks players and heaps who have buggered off to play elsewhere or given up. But perhaps the system is perfect and players who dont make Australia Under 20s should stick to playing subbies, we can then do away with Shute Shield and go down to Woollhara Oval and watch Scots play Cranbrook. Bet the Kiwis are rushing to replicate the ARU set up. Rant over.

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^Thats just a handful that hung around Sydney.
There are countless players that went overseas to play pro Rugby.
I'm pretty sure @Dave Beat could just about name a side from ex Marlins players currently plying their trade o/s.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Ed Gower? Jarred Barry? Hugh Perret? David Feltsher, the Batgers, The Souths centre, atinipulu? No one from Easts although you do have a Lock in the Waratahs whom I has played maybe one first grade game but starred for Scots College. Heaps of Uni & Wicks players and heaps who have buggered off to play elsewhere or given up. But perhaps the system is perfect and players who dont make Australia Under 20s should stick to playing subbies, we can then do away with Shute Shield and go down to Woollhara Oval and watch Scots play Cranbrook. Bet the Kiwis are rushing to replicate the ARU set up. Rant over.

The only one I agree with on that small list of names is Hugh Perrett. Latinipulu is neither here nor there. Good at club level and serviceable in the NRC but not the best option. Ben Batger at least deserved a shot. Gower, Barry and Feltsher, no.

 

[amirite]

Jared Barry was in a pathway (the Brumbies) and dropped out because, and this is a paraphrase of his own words, he wasn't disciplined enough. And that's just one example.

It's easy to point to individual players we like because they looked good on TV, they play for our club, or we had a chat to them once and they seemed like a good bloke. The reality is, there's usually a reason a bloke doesn't make it.

The reality is, MOST good rugby players get into rep programs when they're young. Most of those that are good enough, but bloom later, make it in through other ways (Scott Fardy). Most that are good enough, but were never given a crack in Aus, pop up elsewhere (Mitch Lees). There is an extremely small minority that slip though (Perrett was given a decent whirl).

If a player is good enough he will be talent ID'd somewhere by someone. It's in a club's best interested to do so because they want to win.

 

[Braveheart81]

Batger had varying contracts with the Tahs over four years and got a couple of caps.

The reality is none of those players are ever first XV options and no team are ever really looking for older players who are likely to be outside the best 23 and have little to no Super Rugby experience to round out the squad.

It's the reality of professional sport with limited squad sizes and salary caps.

The reason the young guy gets the contract is they think he might be a Wallaby in five years time.

The older player who gets signed is someone with plenty of experience like McDuling.

I don't think NZ really does it any differently.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[amirite]

Exactly Braveheart. South Africa do a little bit different, but they have 50 man Super squads, so it's just not the same beast.

TBH, the Batgers were always slightly too slow to be elite level outside backs. The reason they were never given the chance was never a secret.

 

[RebelYell]

To be fair, i think we're just as guilty in Australian Rugby of giving up on players from professional ranks too easily. For example, Cam Crawford is comfortably good enough to be in most Aussie teams' best 23, but was let go by the Rebels so that they could free up the squad room to secure youngsters such as McGregor & Maddocks before others did. Basically signing them a year or too early, at the expense of somebody like Cam, because otherwise they will be unable to compete with the likes of the 'Tahs in 12 months time

 

[Braveheart81]

To be fair, i think we're just as guilty in Australian Rugby of giving up on players from professional ranks too easily. For example, Cam Crawford is comfortably good enough to be in most Aussie teams' best 23, but was let go by the Rebels so that they could free up the squad room to secure youngsters such as McGregor & Maddocks before others did. Basically signing them a year or too early, at the expense of somebody like Cam, because otherwise they will be unable to compete with the likes of the 'Tahs in 12 months time

Does anyone actually know that he was given up on?

He's 28, and has had significant injuries in the last few years and perhaps there is an element of whether it is still worth it and whether the drive is still there to make it worthwhile having a pretty low salary to live in a city away from family and friends to pursue his rugby career.

Let's leave McGregor out of the equation because he's clearly not competing for the same spot as Crawford. Maddocks however is.

So if they only need to offer Maddocks an EPS contract and maybe 60k a year to secure his signature, presumably they wouldn't be offering Crawford that much more. If the offer for Crawford is sub 80k and he doesn't really see that progressing substantially, the decision may be made that continuing trying to be a pro rugby player isn't the number one priority.

I'm just speculating here and I don't know what the exact situation is but at some point I think the contract offer and the expectations (and/or need to make it worthwhile to keep going) don't go close to aligning.

 

[amirite]

To be fair, i think we're just as guilty in Australian Rugby of giving up on players from professional ranks too easily. For example, Cam Crawford is comfortably good enough to be in most Aussie teams' best 23, but was let go by the Rebels so that they could free up the squad room to secure youngsters such as McGregor & Maddocks before others did. Basically signing them a year or too early, at the expense of somebody like Cam, because otherwise they will be unable to compete with the likes of the 'Tahs in 12 months time

Cam Crawford is injured probably 1/3-1/2 of the time.

Whenever you see a really talented athlete who has literally everything to make it, including attitude, and they don't. It's probably injuries.

Now HYPOTHETICALLY if Cam had held it together, cracked the Wallaby squad, and THEN started his injury woes, well he'd be sweet.

Unfortunately, he put together a great half season for the Tahs, then just a couple of few for the Rebels.

 

[amirite]

If the offer for Crawford is sub 80k and he doesn't really see that progressing substantially, the decision may be made that continuing trying to be a pro rugby player isn't the number one priority.

80k is not so bad for a 28yo. Bloody boomers are taking all of the wage growth and losing their perspective!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Does anyone actually know that he was given up on?

He's 28, and has had significant injuries in the last few years and perhaps there is an element of whether it is still worth it and whether the drive is still there to make it worthwhile having a pretty low salary to live in a city away from family and friends to pursue his rugby career.

Let's leave McGregor out of the equation because he's clearly not competing for the same spot as Crawford. Maddocks however is.

So if they only need to offer Maddocks an EPS contract and maybe 60k a year to secure his signature, presumably they wouldn't be offering Crawford that much more. If the offer for Crawford is sub 80k and he doesn't really see that progressing substantially, the decision may be made that continuing trying to be a pro rugby player isn't the number one priority.

I'm just speculating here and I don't know what the exact situation is but at some point I think the contract offer and the expectations (and/or need to make it worthwhile to keep going) don't go close to aligning.

My sightings of Crawford suggest he's living in Paddington happily getting on with life - which leads me to think braveheart is right.
He has a degree and is no doubt making more not playing rugby than he did playing it

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Cam Crawford is injured probably 1/3-1/2 of the time.

Whenever you see a really talented athlete who has literally everything to make it, including attitude, and they don't. It's probably injuries.

Now HYPOTHETICALLY if Cam had held it together, cracked the Wallaby squad, and THEN started his injury woes, well he'd be sweet.

Unfortunately, he put together a great half season for the Tahs, then just a couple of few for the Rebels.

IIRC when Betham became a Wallaby it would have been Crawford - he was distinctly ahead of him at the Tahs - except he had had a shoulder reconstruction which then became infected - very bad luck but thats the nature of the game

 

[Braveheart81]

80k is not so bad for a 28yo. Bloody boomers are taking all of the wage growth and losing their perspective!

Yes, but if he has other aspirations, he might think that starting pursuing them now is a better option than waiting another five years.

Whether or not his income is the same immediately is not really the point. It's getting on the career treadmill sooner that will make a bigger difference in the long run.

My sightings of Crawford suggest he's living in Paddington happily getting on with life - which leads me to think braveheart is right.
He has a degree and is no doubt making more not playing rugby than he did playing it

His Dad is a pretty prominent businessman and from what I can tell Cam is a pretty switched on guy. I am sure he has some decent opportunities outside of rugby.

 

[fatprop]

Cam Crawford is injured probably 1/3-1/2 of the time.

Whenever you see a really talented athlete who has literally everything to make it, including attitude, and they don't. It's probably injuries.

Now HYPOTHETICALLY if Cam had held it together, cracked the Wallaby squad, and THEN started his injury woes, well he'd be sweet.

Unfortunately, he put together a great half season for the Tahs, then just a couple of few for the Rebels.

Despite injuries, when fit, he sat on the edge of squads at three different clubs for the majority of his career.

That highlights to me a larger problem because the guy had immense talent

Eddis Jones comments about Chris Ashton maybe apt for Cam as well

"Chris has scored a lot of tries, but there’s a part of the game where you don’t have the ball."

 

[amirite]

Despite injuries, when fit, he sat on the edge of squads at three different clubs for the majority of his career.

That highlights to me a larger problem because the guy had immense talent

Eddis Jones comments about Chris Ashton maybe apt for Cam as well

"Chris has scored a lot of tries, but there’s a part of the game where you don’t have the ball."

I don't really think there's a case of Cam's D being an issue, I think just lack of career momentum because he was always injured. He would always crack the XV then go back to the edge of the squad when he hurt himself.

Maybe your analysis is better than mine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯