Waratahs 2014

[JSRF10]

If it came down to Folau or JOC (James O'Connor) I'd take Folau every time. To get the best out of KB (Kurtley Beale) we'd need him as far away from his "crew" as possible.

As lads said above no point taking too much notice until there is something more concrete announced.

 

[Swat]

If it came down to Folau or JOC (James O'Connor) I'd take Folau every time. To get the best out of KB (Kurtley Beale) we'd need him as far away from his "crew" as possible.

As lads said above no point taking too much notice until there is something more concrete announced.

If the choice was mine I'd take JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau and fuck Beale right off.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If it came down to Folau or JOC (James O'Connor) I'd take Folau every time. To get the best out of KB (Kurtley Beale) we'd need him as far away from his "crew" as possible.

As lads said above no point taking too much notice until there is something more concrete announced.

Yeah, agree with your sentiment. Personally I would take Beale and let JOC (James O'Connor) go to Queensland. With the likes of Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horne, Betham, Crawford, Folau etc we have all the strike power we'll ever need.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

If Cheika was serious about a "no dickheads" policy, then you would want to have some demonstrable evidence that the "issues" with KB (Kurtley Beale) have been well and truly gone away.

Not exactly sure that this will be the case by 2014.

Let KB (Kurtley Beale) go north with JOC (James O'Connor). Corral them all in one place.

Keep Izzy. Look for a better #9 - still can't understand the Phipps signing. #10 Foley will develop with this years experience under his belt, backed up by Vol au Vont.

The Tah's backline is looking good for 2014.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If Cheika was serious about a "no dickheads" policy, then you would want to have some demonstrable evidence that the "issues" with KB (Kurtley Beale) have been well and truly gone away.

Not exactly sure that this will be the case by 2014.

Let KB (Kurtley Beale) go north with JOC (James O'Connor). Corral them all in one place.

Keep Izzy. Look for a better #9 - still can't understand the Phipps signing. #10 Foley will develop with this years experience under his belt, backed up by Vol au Vont.

The Tah's backline is looking good for 2014.

I actually think Cheika would be ideal for Beale. His hard nosed approach is actually exactly what KB (Kurtley Beale) needs and will get.

 

[fatprop]

If Cheika was serious about a "no dickheads" policy, then you would want to have some demonstrable evidence that the "issues" with KB (Kurtley Beale) have been well and truly gone away.

Not exactly sure that this will be the case by 2014.

Let KB (Kurtley Beale) go north with JOC (James O'Connor). Corral them all in one place.

Keep Izzy. Look for a better #9 - still can't understand the Phipps signing. #10 Foley will develop with this years experience under his belt, backed up by Vol au Vont.

The Tah's backline is looking good for 2014.

It is worth being patient with Beale, he is a Tah and I always thought he would come home.

JOC (James O'Connor)? meh, a talent but a mercenary, his "brand" is not something the Tahs need

 

[Richo]

I think with both players it's about price. Lets assume they re-sign Izzy. At that point, KB (Kurtley Beale) is being signed as a 10. Is he an upgrade over Foley? Talent-wise, yes. But by how much? And is it worth the cost difference? You need good players across the park, not a handful of superstars. So if there were a trade off, I'd take Foley and Horne (both off contract and unless Beale comes at a big discount probably cost less together) over just Beale because I think Foley gives us 80% of Beale and if he adds a better kicking game, he might give us 90%. Horne is definitely a top-notch Super player and at worst a marginal international.

Purely from a team fit perspective, I'd take JOC (James O'Connor), play him at 12 and let Horne go. But JOC (James O'Connor) will command the biggest salary of anyone off contract not named Israel Folau.

This would be my ranking: Folau > JOC (James O'Connor) > Beale.

 

[USARugger]

Foley's kicking out of hand has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 rounds. Seriously, he's been as good as any other Aussie 10 with the exception of one or two hiccups.

Barnes is gone this year which frees up a good bit of salary space. Horne has been really exceptional this year but on the other hand JOC (James O'Connor) oozes with talent. I think 12 is his weakest position though.

 

[Richo]

Foley's kicking out of hand has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 rounds. Seriously, he's been as good as any other Aussie 10 with the exception of one or two hiccups.

Even against the Kings he made too many kicking errors. Very good against the Stormers and Brumbies. I'd like to see a lot more good kicking before I'm convinced.

 

[USARugger]

He's looking so much more comfortable kicking to the corners than he was even earlier this season. Barnes should be doing every restart though.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Not convinced about Gilbert. Yes Chieka would probably be able to bring the best out in him, but at what cost to the rest of the team in all the additional attention needed to control KB (Kurtley Beale).

Let both him and Bieber boy go to the Reds if Melbourne want to cut them loose. The Reds seem to be able to better manage high maintenance players than the Tahs.

If he is to come back to Tahland, then I'd like to see Gilbert do an ITM cup for a second string outfit like Tasman, Hawkes Bay or Manawatu. Send Glen Ella over there with him, and accommodate them both on a Jehovahs Witness Marae as their home base.

 

[JSRF10]

The 10 is the general of the team, the bloke who calls the plays and directs the game for his team. He is also the guy who can get his team out of trouble, he can be the rallying point for a team to get a bonus point when they are under the cosh, snatch a W when his team have been second best. Foley whilst he has been decent for the majority of the season, has probably lacked direction and variety when we needed it most. His passing and play making are very good, but his kicking from hand and his general "game management" still need improvement. All the winning franchises have a top quality 10: Crusaders (Carter), Bulls (Steyn), Chiefs (Cruden), Leinster (Sexton), Reds (Cooper) Foley just doesn't strike me as a guy who can get it done like these blokes can.

I'd wager, in hypothetical land, if we had KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10 or even Barnes for that matter, we'd have got bonus points against Reds (from better goal kicking and game management), Bulls (game management, better goal kicking), Canes (goal kicking and the calling of the final plays could have been better) and I think we'd have beaten the Cheetahs.

KB (Kurtley Beale) should be available at a lower price than his value due to his issues. If Cheika is confident he can manage Beales outside influences we should go for him. Barnes' salary should cover KB (Kurtley Beale) and any increase we are offering to Izzy. If we say Foley gives us 80% of Beale at 70% of cost, what if the missing benefits of that 20% are a Super rugby title and everything that that could bring to the club? Would it not be worth the punt?

Disclaimer: I know game management is one of those rugby buzzwords but in this case I'm saying that we've had this run the ball at all costs mentality this season when there have been times when we needed our 10 to take hold of the game, calm things down and play territory. Also I have mentioned goal kicking which Foley hasn't been responsible for but for my money Beale is a better place kicker than McKibben.

 

[Richo]

Great post.

Is it (edit: a title) worth the cost? Yes, of course. But teams can't hamstring themselves financially with the salary cap in place. My point about the difference in value is that you can spend that money elsewhere, such as on a better bench or depth at hooker or whatever. Those things can be as pivotal to winning as star players.

I agree about where Foley is right now. I think he could get there in a couple of years, but if KB (Kurtley Beale) comes at the right price (that's the key thing), then you take him.

 

[BPC]

If the choice was mine I'd take JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau and fuck Beale right off.

If the choice were mine I keep Folau, take Hugh Pyle and send JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale back to Melbourne.

 

[Swat]

We should just leave beale for the force to pick up. Best thing for all parties, get's beale away from the bright lights and gives the force a gamebreaker, something they desperately need. Hell, they're playing Norton-Shite!

 

[RugbyReg]

Just confirming JOC (James O'Connor) has been linked to each team now over the last month? Reds, Tahs, Force. What about Brumbies?

 

[wamberal]

Just confirming JOC (James O'Connor) has been linked to each team now over the last month? Reds, Tahs, Force. What about Brumbies?

They're too smart.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

He was linked the the brumbies first weeks ago. Larkem came out and said he wknt be there next year. Also buddy wont be in sydney next year he will stay at the hawks or return to perth and go to the dockers JOC (James O'Connor) could follow to the force in that instance i guess.

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[Hugh Jarse]

Forget the money trading and wheeling and dealing to be able to afford Beale.

A No Dickheads policy means NO dickheads, no matter how prodigiously talented the dickhead may be.

It is not a Talented Dickheads Welcome policy.

 

[Forcefield]

I reckon Beale would pull his head in if he wasn't in the same team environment as JOC (James O'Connor) and/or Cooper. I would be really interested in what the players have to say. Do the Waratahs want Beale back? Do the Force want JOC (James O'Connor) back? Do the Rebels want either of them to stay?