Waratahs 2013

[TOCC]

If you are told you aren't in consideration for the following year, you are left with a few options:

-Use it as motivation to prove them wrong and improve your performance
-concede reality and shop yourself around to possible clubs elsewhere in OZ or internationally
-Lose motivation and hang your boots up for the rest of the year sulking.

To me, If the player did the later, then it was probably the right call to cut him loose anyway.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They may as well show them the door now because season 2012 is over for the Tahs...another wonderful effort. Cant blame the injuries - everyone has them: they are so prevalent in the Tahs because they are picking the wrong youngsters to progress.
Where is our Jamie McIntosh who is a reincarnation of Karl Heyman.....our ANDREW HOARE or Adam Thompson - you must be out there, surely?

 

[Ruggo]

Pick 5 players with potential and the Tahs will let them go. Isn't that how it works.

How is the talk of Dennis going to the Rebels going? He is a keeper so it is only natural for the Tahs to let him slip through the cracks. It will be like the sequal to Ben Mowen.

 

[waratahjesus]

Pick 5 players with potential and the Tahs will let them go. Isn't that how it works.

How is the talk of Dennis going to the Rebels going? He is a keeper so it is only natural for the Tahs to let him slip through the cracks. It will be like the sequal to Ben Mowen.

Why is it a sequel to Ben mowen? Ben choose to leave cos the Tahs wouldn't let him have the right to dictate terms.

The Reds will find out in a couple of years how hard it is to keep everyone. Thetahs have been consistently high performers for a long period of time, itshard to make changes to a side going well so it makes it hard to hold onto juniors, they don't always get it right, they dont always get it wrong.

Just look at the brumbies rebuilding to see how they planning was for there dominate team of a decade ago, why don't they get that criticism?

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Pick 5 players with potential and the Tahs will let them go. Isn't that how it works.

How is the talk of Dennis going to the Rebels going? He is a keeper so it is only natural for the Tahs to let him slip through the cracks. It will be like the sequal to Ben Mowen.

Pocock was playing school boy Rugby in QLD yet ended up in WA. For mine, QLD not getting a hold onto him & keeping him in QLD is like NSW letting 5 players with potential go...

 

[Gnostic]

Why is it a sequel to Ben mowen? Ben choose to leave cos the Tahs wouldn't let him have the right to dictate terms.

The Reds will find out in a couple of years how hard it is to keep everyone. Thetahs have been consistently high performers for a long period of time, itshard to make changes to a side going well so it makes it hard to hold onto juniors, they don't always get it right, they dont always get it wrong.

Just look at the brumbies rebuilding to see how they planning was for there dominate team of a decade ago, why don't they get that criticism?

Come on WJ. The Tahs kept hold of players well past their prime and then went and signed players under massive injury clouds instead of signing a consistant performer. So Mowen wanted a single year contract. So what, ever stop to think that maybe he was looking at the fact that at 28 going on 29 at the end of that contract he was losing the window of opportunity to go overseas. Now consider the fact that the Tahs would be unlikely to kiss his ass like they did for Elsom and allow him to walk out to go to Ireland mid contract if he didn't make the Wallabies, which given Deans penchant for ineffective work rate types at 8 I would say it is very unlikely, Mowen did the right thing in asking for a single year contract to make a final play at higher honours.

The fact that he signed on for longer with the Ponies might be an indicator of what that side offered him in way of development (ie Captainship). I said it before Mowen left last year that Elsom and Vickerman were very short sighted and poor signings and I have been vindicated in that view.

 

[waratahjesus]

They didn't sign Elsom until after Mowen indicated he was going, that should tell you something there.

I'm glad he found a club, he is n honest toilet, but he is hardkey the second coming or a difference between winning or losing for any team.

If it was a choice between him and Dave dennis, Dennis was the right pick.

A far as holding onto players past there prime it's an easy thing to say but at the coal face it's a much harder thing to judge.

The Tahs were criticized fir getting rid of Burke early for instance.

QLD currently have a young team capable of playing together for a number of years, every time they resign someone there Is someone waiting in the wings who isn't going to get game time or higher honors in QLD. Would you support these players being dropped or cut for younger players ifqld are still qualifying for the finals?

 

[Slim 293]

They didn't sign Elsom until after Mowen indicated he was going, that should tell you something there.

I'm glad he found a club, he is n honest toilet, but he is hardkey the second coming or a difference between winning or losing for any team.

If it was a choice between him and Dave dennis, Dennis was the right pick.

A far as holding onto players past there prime it's an easy thing to say but at the coal face it's a much harder thing to judge.

The Tahs were criticized fir getting rid of Burke early for instance.

QLD currently have a young team capable of playing together for a number of years, every time they resign someone there Is someone waiting in the wings who isn't going to get game time or higher honors in QLD. Would you support these players being dropped or cut for younger players ifqld are still qualifying for the finals?

Elsom wasn't signed until after Mowen left...

But his return was certain well before that...

Anyways, as a Brumbies supporter... we're very happy that the Tahs didn't think so highly of him...

 

[waratahjesus]

Elsom wasn't signed until after Mowen left...

But his return was certain well before that...

Anyways, as a Brumbies supporter... we're very happy that the Tahs didn't think so highly of him...

It was never certain til he signed.
Regardless, it's an illustration of recruitment isn't it. Mown plays 6&8
We have Dennis who does the same and in my opinion had surpassed mowen.
We have mumm who can play 6 as well.
We have Palu at 8 and younger Timani coming through.
Mown was no longer in the starting side,
Should they have kept him?
He is getting greater opportunity at the brumbies and other players are getting opportunity at the Tahs,
Cycle goes on.

 

[MrMouse]

Why is it a sequel to Ben mowen? Ben choose to leave cos the Tahs wouldn't let him have the right to dictate terms.

Sorry WJ, not buying that. The Tahs recruited Elsom (giant mistake) and let Mowen go (giant mistake). Our list management has ranged from ok to shocking, particularly with mid-tier and junior players.

Mumm at 6? Not really, he's struggling to hold down a lock position now and his confidence and game have gone through the floor. Perhaps it should have been him to go to the Brumbies. Cliffy has been amazing for years but I worry that his knees are degenerating and his body is basically fucked. Other than Dave at 6 and the difficult-to-get-overseas Lopeti Timani at 8 we're fucked at both at the moment. Letting Mowen go was a massive, massive cock-up of epic proportions in my opinion.

 

[waratahjesus]

It would get to epic proportions if mowen was a standout, he isn't, he is a very honest, decent footballer.

The contract saga was that the Tahs wanted to sign him for two years, him andhismanagement wanted to sign for one, the Tahs were looking for a longer commitment, Ben left and signed for longer at the brumbies. Readinto it what you want but to me it shows he felt his position in the tea wasn't assured while at the brumbies it was.

We have cover for him. I wouldn't drop Dennis for him, and when Elsom is back I hardly see how it could be considered epic by any proportions.

 

[MrMouse]

We have cover for him. I wouldn't drop Dennis for him, and when Elsom is back I hardly see how it could be considered epic by any proportions.

So any player who isn't automatically in the starting XV is of no value?

Further, given Cliffy's horrendous injury record of late, did it not occur to anyone that this was a player who was developing in to a very good 8, and could step in when this happened?

Further STILL, "when Elsom is back" seems a flawed argument - he has missed FOUR rounds so far plus the entire pre-season. He has only just begun running. And 'when' (read: if) he is back there is no guarantee that he will be the player he was, albeit briefly, last year - let alone the player that went to Leinster. I wouldn't have Rocky at 6 over Dave anyway.

So yeah, I do think it's pretty epic. It's costing us games, and that's epic in my book.

 

[waratahjesus]

Sorry not having Ben mown is costing us games?

You seem to forget that the teams cut from 35 to 30 last year ass well, you can't keep everyone, Ben choose to leave, there was a contract on the table, or should they be paying him a million a year?

 

[MrMouse]

We haven't had an effective 8 the last two weeks. Mowen could well have been the difference in either of those incredibly close losses.

Per the Tahs' site, we only have one blindside (Elsom) and one 8 (Palu). Dennis is actually listed as a lock. We have 6 locks (including Dennis). List management. In our EPS we have 2 8s. List management.

You can't keep everyone, but they could easily have paid Mowen the money they shoved at Elsom and had a fit player who could actually play a role in/for the team. They could probably have paid him 3/4 what Elsom is on.

I'm getting the feeling we're going to need to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[waratahjesus]

The thing I disagree with that you keep shoving aside is, Ben chose to leave. They offered a contract and he said no. The notion that they shoved money at Elsom or anything else is completely irrelevant as the contract negotiations with Ben were over before they made. Play for rocky

 

[Slim 293]

But it would've been a wiser move to hang onto a 6/8 who's been a consistently good player rather than gamble on a 6 (Elsom) and an 8 (Palu) who've both struggled to stay on the field or be in form...

And then name Elsom captain just to make the situation worse... I know who I'd rather have as captain...

Who's playing no 8 now?

 

[MrMouse]

Who's playing no 8 now?

We had Metuisela at 8, with Stanford on the bench. Metuisela is from the EPS, Stanford is actually from outside it.

Lopeti Timani is a decent addition but has had various visa-type dilemmas. I'd expect him to start against the Shorks.

 

[waratahjesus]

But it would've been a wiser move to hang onto a 6/8 who's been a consistently good player rather than gamble on a 6 (Elsom) and an 8 (Palu) who've both struggled to stay on the field or be in form...

And then name Elsom captain just to make the situation worse... I know who I'd rather have as captain...

Who's playing no 8 now?

Would have been wise and is why he was offered a contract at the club. You can't force people to stay.

 

[BPC]

he is n honest toilet

I shudder to think which players might be considered to be dishonest toilets.

 

[Muttonbird]

I hope the Waratahs are not looking this far ahead. Maybe they are and that's the problem. It's better to focus everything on the game ahead isn't it?