Waratahs 2013

[Rob42]

It would appear Folau's manager Isaac Moses may have been taking advice from Khoder on how to deal with NRL clubs...

Perhps someone should point out to Folau that whilst Moses did lead Israel out of bondage and through the Red Sea on dry land, he ended up stuck in the wilderness for 40 years...

And by 40 years in the wilderness, I do mean the Waratahs 2012 season.

 

[Braveheart81]

Moses leading Israel... you couldn't make this stuff up!

 

[BDA]

It does seem weird for Folau to be signing with the tahs but this is a win win situation for aus rugby.

If nothing else Folau's going to draw a lot of attention to the tahs and the super 15 generally. And given that the media has recently been saturated with stories about one of unions biggest stars possibly going to league, this is a timely counterpunch. If actually manages to pick the game up, he'll make a real impact. If not he'll head back to league, causing no real damage, simply confirming what we all already know; that league is a much simpler game.

But the real league fans on the forum will no doubt agree, this is a guy with serious, serious potential. He is has a lot more raw talent than Timana Tahu ever had. With ball in hand he's up there with a young Tuqiri. I dont expect he'll stick around past one year, nor do I think he's a certain of being able to pick up the game within that time, but it should make for interesting viewing and there's certainly a chance Izzy could make a big impact on aus rugby if he fires.

 

[TOCC]

Sorry BDA but I'm just perplexed how it is as a good thing for Australian Rugby fm he isn't going to hang around for more then 12 months?

Yes fanfare is generated when he signs, but what happens when he develops young fans and then moves back to the mungoes?

I agree he is talented and could be a good addition to Aus Rugby, but he needs to be in it for the long haul..

 

[rugbysmartarse]

He may be. We are frankly all speculating on his desires, but the 1 year deal could also be so he can prove himself and earn an aru top up.

 

[BDA]

Sorry BDA but I'm just perplexed how it is as a good thing for Australian Rugby fm he isn't going to hang around for more then 12 months?

Yes fanfare is generated when he signs, but what happens when he develops young fans and then moves back to the mungoes?

I agree he is talented and could be a good addition to Aus Rugby, but he needs to be in it for the long haul..

If that was true then why would anyone sign a guy like SBW. The Rooster know that bloke isnt sticking around but there is still a massive upshot to signing the guy.

I would be singing a different tune if they'd gone and forked out a truck load of cash on the bloke (ala he AFL) but it doesnt sound like theyv done that.

 

[Bardon]

The simple answer to your question BDA is that most administrators look to the short term gain. The numbers stack up in the short term for these kinds of contracts. They're not worried about getting fans for life with these guys they're worried about squeezing as much cash out of fans for the short term such guys are around.

The benefit in terms of lifetime converted fans isn't going to be that great with such players on short term contracts. As TOCC said the fans will follow their idol into his next sport and team. So in the case of Folau it should be viewed as a one time exceptional item.

There will definitely be a boost for the time he's with the Tahs and it will be exciting to see if he does pick the game up in that time. Such short term boosts can be addictive for administrators and it can become a very expensive business if they want to keep their numbers up year on year especially if after a successful short term contract you have a couple of flops.

As a one-off it looks like a good piece of business for some short term gain but for the long run I'm with TOCC in that I don't believe it will have that great an impact on the long term retention of new fans. If it happens to coincide with a successful year for the Tahs there might be a slightly different story. That's success judged in the grand scheme of things and not as compared to last year where managing to score a winning try in the last 20 minutes of a game might be seen a success.

 

[Hawko]

All the debate on whether Israel Folau can or can't play in the backline avoids the real issue. We have only one real 6 and a couple of "maybe at a pinch" players. Dennis has had a very long season and has trained and played most internationals. He's not going to get a huge break before he has to report for pre-season training and IMO he is a likely candidate for injury. If he gets injured are we going to put Folau there? Not bloody likely! We only have one 10 in Foley plus Barnes and Lane in reserve. We are desperately short at 6 and 10. Why on earth would you contract another winger cum 13?

This decision to contract Folau, if confirmed tomorrow, is a massive risk vs some minor PR benefits. Even if Folau goes fantastically well, he's only going to push a Wallaby player out (unless of course there is a massive injury toll). Last year Trist was never used in a team with a lot of injuries. This year Hodge was looking like he'll be the new Trist, now Coleman and Kingston could make three Trists.

 

[Richo]

Falou is a good signing and I reckon will make a really good winger for the tahs and therefore be used as an inside centre for the wallabies.

Deans will pick him at 6.

 

[BDA]

The simple answer to your question BDA is that most administrators look to the short term gain.

Mine was actually a rhetorical question. im all for long term development. but Izzy is a bargin. regardless of what happens here, the tahs will make money (and fans) from this move.

 

[Richo]

Mine was actually a rhetorical question. im all for long term development. but Izzy is a bargin. regardless of what happens here, the tahs will make money (and fans) from this move.

It is also possible that he sticks with rugby. There is the potential to make good money with a Wallabies contract, and the added incentive of the Olympics and (real) national representation. It's far, far too early to judge the impact of the signing beyond the most immediate short-term implications, and, IMO, those are largely positive.

 

[qwerty51]

All the debate on whether Israel Folau can or can't play in the backline avoids the real issue. We have only one real 6 and a couple of "maybe at a pinch" players.

Yep this is why I don't like it. We may have a full Wallaby pack but all of them have had very big 2012s and will need to be rested throughout 2013. Right now we don't have a good enough backup pack I feel. The front row will always be solid with Tilse, Fitzpatrick and Ryan but the locks of Atkins and Peterson haven't even played 1 game and are not stand outs at Shute Shield level. Holloway is young and has potential but right now is not a Super rugby 6. McCutcheon will be good value for Hooper and L Timani is improving but not high quality. We needed the last spot to be a decent backrower.

 

[fatprop]

You do remember Jason Robinson don't you. Apparently he played a couple of games of league as well. To suggest that Betham, Crawford and Hodge are a reason not to sign him is an interesting one in the most polite sense.

More about balance in the squad, we will be outside backs heavy in a comp with a lot of attrition. So, a few outside backs get wounded, plenty of cover from within the squad

But if a couple of backrowers get wounded and we could be scouring Sydney club again for cover

 

[Richo]

I think it's pretty clear that signing Folau is not about need but opportunity. Cheika would know full well that this signing leaves him thin in the back row, but would also have deemed the potential positives -- on the field and off -- to be worth the risk.

 

[Braveheart81]

I also think that Cheika wouldn't be the sort of coach to select Folau unless he deserved to be selected.

I agree with Baa Baa (I think it was him anyway) that Folau will probably get selected as number 22 a fair bit and get to play a few cameos. It can only be good for the Tahs if he can force his way into the starting 15. There is stiff competition to do that though so he'll have to be good.

 

[Richo]

I agree with Baa Baa (I think it was him anyway) that Folau will probably get selected as number 22 a fair bit and get to play a few cameos. It can only be good for the Tahs if he can force his way into the starting 15. There is stiff competition to do that though so he'll have to be good.

I suspect that Cheika will not follow the Hickey/Foley policy of only resting players when forced to by injury. We might see Folau get a few starts against weaker sides as part of squad rotation.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Falou is a good signing and I reckon will make a really good winger for the tahs and therefore be used as an inside centre for the wallabies.

Just like Cooper Vuna!

Paying Mr Commitment $400K for 6 months and overlooking those who have loved rugby since age 8. Bullshit, this will end in tears.

 

[en_force_er]

How good is Izzy at running first phase ball? I remember he was often used in that role in the NRL off of scrums but I don't remember how well it went.

I think that's what will dictate how successful he is instantly, along with how quickly he starts to innately understand good running lines (which are different to league).

I wonder what position he will play, I'd like to see him run at FB because he can kick or run as needed and a FB of his size is something the game hasn't seen. However, wing is the safer choice because you'll get more from him quicker.

 

[wamberal]

I reckon if he goes well, and gets an ARU top-up, he will stay. He will certainly bring some new fans, or, rather, will give the existing fan base an excuse to get back to the games.

As to whether fans will stick or not if he leaves, that is kind of irrelevant to the question of whether or not he should have been signed. Getting some new fans into the games - or attracting back some of the disillusioned masses - is surely a good idea in itself.

It is, after all, better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all. Get them into the games, give them something to enjoy and appreciate, would be a good starting point.

 

[Bardon]

Agree with Richo Cheika likes his squad to be somewhat interchangeable so would expect Folau to be given a few opportunities to start. Hopefully we'll see a Tahs squad that can cope better with injuries emerge over the next few years.