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Waratahs 2012

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waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
cos the week before they failed to make any impact, this week they attacked the line, delivered balls at the gain line and created actual punch at times. if they can build on that they will score more points.

agree barnes is still to deep, but at least he has started taking the ball at pace, if he can take a few steps up we might actually see something special
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
The timing of player movement appears to be off all over. It's not just Barnes. Repeatedly forwards were up too early or too late, so they rarely received the ball at pace. It's rather late in the season for such things, even with the injuries.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
I noticed at one time the Tahs managed to counter ruck in following up a long kick...there were like 3 or 4 there...but you can guess what happened next?

The Bulls got the ball back as they were there in superior numbers and there was no Tahs to be seen behind that newly formed Tahs' ruck...the Bulls player merely went around it to get at the ball that had come out...
 

jay-c

Ron Walden (29)
when does barnes come off contract? the feeling has really crept up for me recently that hes likely to scoot> whats the deal with his wife? is she gunna hold him in sydney? im jus reminded of him at the reds jus before he left them
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Well lets compare the skills performance of the Tahs V the Rebels.

Two weeks running the Rebels 9 and 10 have been able to pass the ball in front of attackers moving at pace. The Tahs pass the ball to static one out runners and invariably manage to do that above the heads, behind or at the feet of the receiver. Note the difference of where Beale stands for the Rebels and where Barnes does. Barnes cannot stand more than 10 metres from the ruck/scrum/lineout because his halfback cannot pass that far accuractely (if that is what you call receiving the ball static and above your head at your feet etc. Beale on the other hand can stand 15 metrs lateral to the ruck and run onto the ball. Beale can also pass the ball further than 5 metres (something he rarely showed with such consistancy at the Tahs why?) with accuracy and without the Harbour Bridge arch in it something neither Barnes (which he did before he came to the Tahs. Why not now?) or Halangahu (has never had a long pass) can do.

Have a look at the kicking from the teams. Again as I said in the game thread and "what's wrong with the Tahs thread" the Tahs kicks were aimless. They hoofed downfield into positions they couldn't contest or even pressure possession and didn't find touch. The Rebels were able to pressure most of their kicks or found touch. And Gerrard is just beyond brilliant with his touch finders.

Finally the Rebels were committed and feral until 5 minutes after the final whistle. The Tahs look like they shut up shop again 15 minutes before the end of the game to defend their lead.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Well lets compare the skills performance of the Tahs V the Rebels.

Two weeks running the Rebels 9 and 10 have been able to pass the ball in front of attackers moving at pace. The Tahs pass the ball to static one out runners and invariably manage to do that above the heads, behind or at the feet of the receiver. Note the difference of where Beale stands for the Rebels and where Barnes does. Barnes cannot stand more than 10 metres from the ruck/scrum/lineout because his halfback cannot pass that far accuractely (if that is what you call receiving the ball static and above your head at your feet etc. Beale on the other hand can stand 15 metrs lateral to the ruck and run onto the ball. Beale can also pass the ball further than 5 metres (something he rarely showed with such consistancy at the Tahs why?) with accuracy and without the Harbour Bridge arch in it something neither Barnes (which he did before he came to the Tahs. Why not now?) or Halangahu (has never had a long pass) can do.

Have a look at the kicking from the teams. Again as I said in the game thread and "what's wrong with the Tahs thread" the Tahs kicks were aimless. They hoofed downfield into positions they couldn't contest or even pressure possession and didn't find touch. The Rebels were able to pressure most of their kicks or found touch. And Gerrard is just beyond brilliant with his touch finders.

Finally the Rebels were committed and feral until 5 minutes after the final whistle. The Tahs look like they shut up shop again 15 minutes before the end of the game to defend their lead.


No no no...

WJ will tell you it's because of injuries...
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
No no no...

WJ will tell you it's because of injuries...

Slim,
I once again ask you to actually read my posts,at no time have I actually said we lost a game due to injury. I have said injury, form, confidence, combinations and coaching have affected the Tahs this year. You keep banging on about it as if I'm trying to take credit away from the teams that beat the Tahs, that is not truthful and your constant misrepresentation of my points is growing a little tired.

If the brumbies lose form without Lilo, who I have enjoyed watching no end this year, I will accept that there form hass been affected by the injury, I get it, you won't accept that and we differ in opinion there.

However, how about if your going to contribute to threads about the Tahs you make your posts relevant and not continue to take shots at me to justify your opinion, but rather back it up with fact or actually debate.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Apologies if this is in another thread already, but Drew Mitchell is over with the squad in South Africa, as is TPN. Drew is expected to get a run against the Cheetahs in the 2nd game.

All the fit contracted Tahs are over there except BKH and young lock Greg Peterson, who hasn't had a Super game yet. Lopeti T from the EPS is also there, as is outsider Mann-Rae, who must be on standby for TPN. I hope they will get Lopeti to go in the back door of the team hotel and not the side entrance to get the idea of what to do at a ruck.

I expected Drew to make his comeback when the Tahs returned from the RSA after a club game or two. BKH could have toured: he is looking and playing fitter now for Southerns than he was for the Tahs earlier in the season. With the Tahs virtually lame ducks in the comp now it is of no use to risk Drew.

And if they are dead ducks and not just lame ones when they return from the RSA I hope that Peterson gets a run from the bench.

Who really knows about the Mitchell situation though? Drew said he would take his comeback conservatively; so perhaps he is. Whatever, it will be good to see him back on the park.
.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Where I come from scoring is capitalising enough.

I dont doubt it. That's presumably why you used the word.
Where i come from we are interested in the improvement of the team: scoring lucky tries does not improve the team and, by the way, they couldnt repeat it and it did them no earthly good.

So it was an all round hollow effort that advanced Tahs rugby not an inch. If youre playing for short term gain what more could you ask for.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Apologies if this is in another thread already, but Drew Mitchell is over with the squad in South Africa, as is TPN. Drew is expected to get a run against the Cheetahs in the 2nd game.

All the fit contracted Tahs are over there except BKH and young lock Greg Peterson, who hasn't had a Super game yet. Lopeti T from the EPS is also there, as is outsider Mann-Rae, who must be on standby for TPN. I hope they will get Lopeti to go in the back door of the team hotel and not the side entrance to get the idea of what to do at a ruck.

I expected Drew to make his comeback when the Tahs returned from the RSA after a club game or two. BKH could have toured: he is looking and playing fitter now for Southerns than he was for the Tahs earlier in the season. With the Tahs virtually lame ducks in the comp now it is of no use to risk Drew.

And if they are dead ducks and not just lame ones when they return from the RSA I hope that Peterson gets a run from the bench.

Who really knows about the Mitchell situation though? Drew said he would take his comeback conservatively; so perhaps he is. Whatever, it will be good to see him back on the park.
.

Read this part and consider Redshappy's posts regarding Mitchells return prematurely for the RWC last year. BKH also should be tried IMO, he has performed well for Southern in the games I have seen on the ABC.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Join the petition to Rebuild the Waratahs from the ground up...Click the link below to instantly sign it and read what we stand for. Every sign up sends an email to the office of the CEO of the Tahs. Our objective it to get 5000 signatures to show the Board of Directors how the fans feel and the need for change.

http://www.change.org/petitions/reb...m-the-ground-up-coach-players-culture-and-all

Please send the link around to all the Tahs fans you know.


The only way to change the culture is to move the team to another city.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'm not convinced that I agree with this.

I agree that there probably needs to be a change to the coaching. Some of the tactics have left a fair bit to be desired, but potentially half the problem was execution.

With a slew of new coaching staff this season, I think it would be unreasonable to think everything was going to gel perfectly. I think they are owed another year to see if they can get things together. Our backs have struggled, but we have also been missing key attacking players for the whole season. Missing Bernard Foley for three games was costly enough.

Ball skills have been a bit of a problem for a few years. As much as I've always been a fan of Scott Bowen, maybe his position should be in jeopardy. Some of our players have amazing ball skills such as TPN and Benn Robinson, but others, particularly in the backs are making too many simple errors.

I think leadership has struggled this season, but there was always going to be issues when Phil Waugh left because he was such a dominant and controlling leader of the club. Rocky Elsom clearly hasn't worked out because he has been injured for so much of the season. Having a guy who is the leader of the club who has barely played was always going to be problematic.

In terms of culture, I don't know how you can say it is all wrong. If we'd won four out of the six close games against the Reds, Highlanders, Force, Crusaders, Bulls and Stormers and were now well and truly in finals contention, would anyone be claiming that the culture is broken? I think it is an easy thing to blame because it is hard to quantify.

As an outsider looking in, it seems like there are plenty of passionate people involved. Chris Webb is seemingly the heart and soul of the Tahs. Are you suggesting that he needs to go? I wouldn't have thought so.

As a passionate Tahs supporter, this season has undoubtedly been a disappointing one. I don't think it is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater and starting again though.

2012 Strengths
- Our scrum has been incredible this season. Possibly the best in the competition.
- Our lineout has improved, mostly due to improved throwing from TPN and John Ulugia. Whilst it is still not perfect, this used to be a major weakness for the Tahs and now we are probably average. John Ulugia has turned into a reasonable Super Rugby player and is certainly strong in the scrum.
- Kane Douglas has had a great season. After a superb 2010, he was quiet last year. This year he has been a consistent performer. He is still 22. He could become a Waratah great. We should do everything to hang onto him and keep building him into a better player. Together with Sitaleki Timani, these two could form a formidable locking combination for years to come.
- Dave Dennis has continued to improve and is well and truly in Wallaby contention.
- Cliffy Palu is back near his best and is a good chance to be the first choice Wallaby 8.
- Brendan McKibbin has improved greatly this season and his goalkicking has been excellent. It has become a selection headache between him and Sarel Pretorius, but post Burgess, our halfback stocks seem alright.
- Tom Kingston has had a great year and is developing nicely. He could be a key player in the next few years.
- Bernard Foley has been our most dangerous player and has been superb at fullback. His decision making far exceeds his experience and I think this guy should be our 10 next season. I think he could be a 10 we could build a championship side around.

2012 Weaknesses
- Discipline. We have gone from being one of the best disciplined teams to one of the worst. Part of this must be the departure of Phil Waugh. Previously players were scared to give away a penalty.
- Giving away points after scoring points. So often this season we have made an error off a kickoff after scoring points and given points straight back. This has been unacceptable and results in us taking 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards at every turn.
- Leadership. Senior players calling for McKibbin to kick against the Reds in Round 1 cost us the game. A stupid scrum move against the Bulls cost us that game. We are making dumb choices at key times and it is costing us wins.
- Lapses in concentration. Seemingly in every game we have a lull where we let in most of our points. Often it is either side of half time. This is where we are losing games.
- Injuries. For the second year in a row we have struggled greatly with injuries. Having Elsom and Vickerman on our books and not playing has been costly. TPN and Palu have had pretty good seasons injury wise, but are injury prone. We have to make recruitment decisions that take this into account and recruit players who should be available for most of the season. One of Dean Mumm's best traits was his resilience. He has missed very few games in his entire career at the Tahs (I think 3 games out of around 80).
- Maul and red zone defence. We have let in too many soft tries close to our line. Our defence off 5m lineouts has been atrocious. We used to be a great side at holding teams out, now we seem to be easy to score against when a team has the ball close to our line.
- Red zone attack. We have really struggled to score tries with possession close to opposition lines. With a dominant scrum and good crash ball runners like Tom Carter and Rob Horne, this should be a real strength. We are just not executing and getting points in positions where we have to be putting points on the board.

That's probably enough of a rant. I don't think all is lost and we need to sack the board, the coaches, the players and start again. I think there are plenty of things to work on but overall things aren't desperate.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Has any lock been put on a plane to cover Mumm & Timani? Both Stanford and Peterson played in Sydney on the weekend.
 
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