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Waratahs 2012

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Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
"Bungles and brain snaps cost dearly, says Gaffney" And that's just among the coaches and selectors.

"We can't go through a game playing with gay abandon," Gaffney said yesterday. The Waratahs have been guilty of most things you can do wrong on a rugby field but old Gaff is the first one to spot "gay abandon". That could be because most observers of the team tend to nod off for extended periods, as do many of the players; whereas Gaff is a chronic insomniac and therefore has to endure the entire excruciating 80 minutes.

"The other night, there were times where we just threw the ball away. ... in those first 20 minutes ... we did throw the ball away four times in their 22 metres - ridiculously, at times. That was never what we intended to do." I should hope not, Gaff, although it would have the advantage of catching the opposition by surprise. They wouldn't be expecting that - or perhaps they might.

"Throw[ing] the ball away four times" is bad enough but on some unspecified number of those four occasions we threw it away "ridiculously". I can cope with it being thrown away thoughtfully, cleverly or as a gesture of contempt towards the opposition, but to do it "ridiculously" was never as Gaff reassures us "what we intended to do". Just as well I didn't spot them doing that or I'd have thrown the cat at the TV screen.

"The former Ireland backs coach argued it was time for five-eighth Berrick Barnes to be given better protection from his teammates ..." I have heard that there is a lot of dissension and disharmony among the Waratahs players, but if it has got to the stage where your five-eighth is apprehensive about being physically assaulted by his own teammates, then it is surely time for him, as Gaff seems to be implying, to be allowed to take a minder onto the field with him. In a happy and united team players can expect protection by their teammates not from them.

As a very sensible precaution, the Waratahs' doctor Sharon Flahive will be assisted by an eminent neurologist; not just for Tatafu Polota-Nau who suffered a double head-knock against the Brumbies, but also to keep an eye on Berrick who rather worryingly told the Telegraph's Iain Payten, "they've got blokes [of] 130kg across the park". However, when interviewed by the Herald's Scoop Growden he seemed to be aware that he might have been hallucinating as he changed his comment to "they always appear to have 130-kilogram players right across the park."
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kiap

Steve Williams (59)
OK peoples,

Josh Mann-Rea? Tahs have signed him, so what do we know?

"We can't go through a game playing with gay abandon," Gaffney said yesterday.

Maybe they can...

SMH said:
Speaking of Mann-Rea, the hooker played four matches for the Waratahs in 2006 and is so keen to impress Foley he spent hours on Monday night cleaning his fingernails. Not of dirt, however, Mann-Rea was cleaning off nail polish. Boarding with The Voice fanatics Drew Mitchell and Adam Ashley-Cooper, the duo urged the hooker to join them in painting their fingernails yellow in the manner of judge and singer Seal. ''We're all about team Seal - he's our boy,'' Ashley-Cooper told The Inside Back while he and Mitchell showed off their coloured cuticles.

''Look, he's boarding with us so the least he could do was get involved in the house spirit,'' Mitchell added. ''We gave it to him a bit about making sure he'd better throw straight or Foles would not only blow up at him for throwing badly but throwing badly with nail polish on. ''Then we woke up this morning and it was all removed. The funny thing is, we don't have nail polish remover in the house. He stayed up all night scratching it off!''
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/waratah...ed-warriors-20120508-1yba5.html#ixzz1uK43FKBQ
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Yeah, as long as he is not "returning early". I'd rather he take a bit longer and not be underdone.

Indeed. One might argue that "returning early" was precisely what did him in (badly) during the RWC, and deprived us of his very capable services in later games. Well, I don't need to say "one might argue" do I, as IIRC Drew said as much himself not long after the RWC.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Where has this hooker come from? By that I mean who has he been playing rugby for the last couple of weeks?
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Indeed. One might argue that "returning early" was precisely what did him in (badly) during the RWC, and deprived us of his very capable services in later games. Well, I don't need to say "one might argue" do I, as IIRC Drew said as much himself not long after the RWC.

Thing is the current injury hass nothing to do with the injury in the world cup. It's a symptom of his broken ankle that manifested in another area. His world cup comeback actually has very little to do with it.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Where has this hooker come from? By that I mean who has he been playing rugby for the last couple of weeks?

From Planet Rugby

A former Australian Schoolboy, U19 and U21 and Junior Waratah, the 31-year-old Manly hooker has been training with the squad since April, having previously spent three years with Japanese club Kyden Voltex.

No mention of where he's been playing though so might be just training with the squad for the last few weeks with no game time.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
The SMH article today quoting Gaffney I had to check the date. I was sure that I read the same quotes and general interview before somewhere. Seems that every Tahs coach trots out similar quotes and interviews every year. Why?
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
He only returned prematurely because of the WC, any other year he would've taken it off. He did the right thing by his team mates and himself.

Poppycock. Do your sentimental loyalties and partisan fan admirations have no objective limits?

Returning prematurely - in this manner in the midst of a major competition where higher than normal risk of an injury breakdown can completely wreck a critical match or the team preparation for one - is in no sense 'doing the right thing by his teammates and himself'. Such a return means (a) someone else who may be more robust and far less risk (of injury breakdown) misses out on the squad or has to be flown in urgently with no squad time (b) as noted, key games can be placed in far more jeopardy than would otherwise be the case (c) set plays that are an important part of game plans can be broken up via having to urgently bring in an uninjured player that hasn't rehearsed them...etc.

Btw and IMO, I actually believe that it was irresponsible for the coaches to bring into the squad any player that possessed a materially higher risk of breaking down mid-RWC via a known, unhealed, significant injury. Eg, we now find out post-RWC that the immovable icon Rocky played the whole RWC with a badly ripped hammy that could have gone totally bad at any moment - and didn't his rather ordinary standard of play in the RWC in part betray that problem. And, of course, Rocky has barely played since October 2011, and Drew M has not played at all since.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Poppycock. Do your sentimental loyalties and partisan fan admirations have no objective limits?


Well as a Tahs fan here I am saying Drew did the right thing in prematurely coming back from his injury in order to make the WC which resulted in him missing the most of 2012, so I don't see how that applies.

Mitchell did not play in the big games, he was only trialled against the minnows to see if he was up for it. Nothing wrong with that.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Returning prematurely - in this manner in the midst of a major competition where higher than normal risk of an injury breakdown can completely wreck a critical match or the team preparation for one - is in no sense 'doing the right thing by his teammates and himself'. Such a return means (a) someone else who may be more robust and far less risk (of injury breakdown) misses out on the squad or has to be flown in urgently with no squad time (b) as noted, key games can be placed in far more jeopardy than would otherwise be the case (c) set plays that are an important part of game plans can be broken up via having to urgently bring in an uninjured player that hasn't rehearsed them...etc.
It was 3 hours away, my kids bus trip for one of their school games takes longer than that.
He is a winger, there are not that many variations of moves. Watch a Super 15 or a test match with a 15 year old, every backline movement is "Oh we call that move... etc etc" they know them all, I am confident that a professional player who has been in camp previously is up to speed on backs tactics.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Poppycock. Do your sentimental loyalties and partisan fan admirations have no objective limits?

Returning prematurely - in this manner in the midst of a major competition where higher than normal risk of an injury breakdown can completely wreck a critical match or the team preparation for one - is in no sense 'doing the right thing by his teammates and himself'. Such a return means (a) someone else who may be more robust and far less risk (of injury breakdown) misses out on the squad or has to be flown in urgently with no squad time (b) as noted, key games can be placed in far more jeopardy than would otherwise be the case (c) set plays that are an important part of game plans can be broken up via having to urgently bring in an uninjured player that hasn't rehearsed them...etc.

Btw and IMO, I actually believe that it was irresponsible for the coaches to bring into the squad any player that possessed a materially higher risk of breaking down mid-RWC via a known, unhealed, significant injury. Eg, we now find out post-RWC that the immovable icon Rocky played the whole RWC with a badly ripped hammy that could have gone totally bad at any moment - and didn't his rather ordinary standard of play in the RWC in part betray that problem. And, of course, Rocky has barely played since October 2011, and Drew M has not played at all since.

Agree with you 110% redshappy, I reckon rugby should invest in some sort of non rugby playing medical assistants that could assess injury and prepare assessments to judge if a player is ready or not to perform.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Poppycock. Do your sentimental loyalties and partisan fan admirations have no objective limits?

Returning prematurely - in this manner in the midst of a major competition where higher than normal risk of an injury breakdown can completely wreck a critical match or the team preparation for one - is in no sense 'doing the right thing by his teammates and himself'. Such a return means (a) someone else who may be more robust and far less risk (of injury breakdown) misses out on the squad or has to be flown in urgently with no squad time (b) as noted, key games can be placed in far more jeopardy than would otherwise be the case (c) set plays that are an important part of game plans can be broken up via having to urgently bring in an uninjured player that hasn't rehearsed them...etc.

Btw and IMO, I actually believe that it was irresponsible for the coaches to bring into the squad any player that possessed a materially higher risk of breaking down mid-RWC via a known, unhealed, significant injury. Eg, we now find out post-RWC that the immovable icon Rocky played the whole RWC with a badly ripped hammy that could have gone totally bad at any moment - and didn't his rather ordinary standard of play in the RWC in part betray that problem. And, of course, Rocky has barely played since October 2011, and Drew M has not played at all since.

See the challenge with this "post" analysis is that there is too much 20/20 hindsight.

These guys take advise from the medical experts and essentially gamble everytime they go out there - they are always playing injured, there are always needles and injury management.

They want to play in tournaments like the RWC, they are told "if" A, B & C happens, the stars align and they work their arses off they should be right.

They do the work, pass the milestone tests and get selected. If they then get injured or re-injured - unlucky.

They are picked because they are worth the risk as they are simply better than the "next" best options. Aus doesn't have a conveyor belt of quality test players, we have one or two in most positions then daylight.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
FP there is sense in what you say.
and I guess at this level some of the luxuries enjoyed lower down the chain disappear (because immediate results become the only goal) but I have always thought that there is a "rule" that you don't pick injured players and you show faith in understudies.
A part of the problem in Oz rugby at the moment is that so many players are being picked in multiple positions - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played everywhere but 1/2 and 5/8 this year, as a good example. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s ability to cover multiple positions has, arguably, held him back at the highest level because he is possibly not seen as the #1 pick in any of them but he can cover all of them.
So instead of doing what Foley did this week, which looks desperate and sends the wrong message to all the players, you only drop players if there is a better player behind them in their position: this sends a message that if you do the work you'll be picked as opposed to the message that, whatever happens we'll be looking at the old stagers before we look at you.
Foley has managed to arguably weaken 3 positions by shuffling the back line: the first question to be asked is "is there anyone better than Carter who is a 12?" - there may be i don't know...but moving DH to fullback etc etc looks and feels very bad.
My prediction: DH does not have the pace to play fullback at this level.
On the MItchell issue i don't think we (or at least i certainly don't) have enough information about what was known about his vulnerability to re-injury. The fact is that he probably shouldn't have been picked on form (i.e. he had none!!) - but i can't remember who could have been taken instead and incumbency has to be given some weight.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
fat prop is right. Even at first grade level in Sydney, coaches manage squads through the use of needles, reduced training etc to ensure their best players play on the weekend. Sometimes that means playing injured for most of a season. It's been happening for decades.

In terms of the AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) reshuffle, I'd have put Barnes at 15 and Halangahu at 10 but I think he's used his resources to create the best backline possible in the circumstances.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
FP there is sense in what you say.
and I guess at this level some of the luxuries enjoyed lower down the chain disappear (because immediate results become the only goal) but I have always thought that there is a "rule" that you don't pick injured players and you show faith in understudies.
A part of the problem in Oz rugby at the moment is that so many players are being picked in multiple positions

I remember an interview with Nathan Hindmarsh talking about the attributes of a quality footballer, one of the key things he said was the ability to play near capacity wounded. His premise is that after the first 3 rounds most players are carrying some level of injury, and some just can't cut it, while others battle through and you don't notice the needles and pain that they coped with.

It is OK if the understudy is up to it, the challenge is the first choice, playing wounded and at 80% of capacity is often still a better option.

When we have 30 man squads, you just don't/can't have specialist depth, you end up loading the back end of your squad with utilities
 
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