Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
My argument remains they are no different to any of the past 10 years or more. Again new coaches, same old execution issues.
Waratahs 2012
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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My argument remains they are no different to any of the past 10 years or more. Again new coaches, same old execution issues.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
hence my call to clean the joint out - if its being passed on from generation to generation - as i think you suggested Gnostic (and frankly I think you're right but I am flabbergasted that it could happen that way over such a long time) - then you have to have a clean sweep from the very top to the very bottom.
Forget about running the ARU with a commission the Tahs need one - and probably a royal commission too.
Forget about running the ARU with a commission the Tahs need one - and probably a royal commission too.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Not often I agree with spire, but his suggestion to bring Campo in has a but of merit. Him and gaffney are mates, but with gaffney more concerned with winning member of the month another head couldn't hurt.
Barnes is to deep, it happens to him at ten every now and then and then translates into a form issue. Problem thus year for mine is, hs runners arnt going with him when he des meet the ball whilst moving forward and it's making him check his run which results in poor passing, it's a total back line failure and at this point you have to say it's dragged on way to long.
Barnes is to deep, it happens to him at ten every now and then and then translates into a form issue. Problem thus year for mine is, hs runners arnt going with him when he des meet the ball whilst moving forward and it's making him check his run which results in poor passing, it's a total back line failure and at this point you have to say it's dragged on way to long.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
What could campo teach anybody: if you have a shit load of ability you can do this....if you dont then I'm sorry I dont know how I can help you
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
What could campo teach anybody: if you have a shit load of ability you can do this....if you dont then I'm sorry I dont know how I can help you
He can at least tell them to have a crack. Something that when they do makes them look 100% better.
Also, send the backs down to swans kicking practice once a week, can't hurt.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
What could campo teach anybody: if you have a shit load of ability you can do this....if you dont then I'm sorry I dont know how I can help you
Have a look at the play of the Sharks a couple of years ago. IMO his impact on their backs play was subtle and very very effective.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I prefer a surgical route to solve their kicking problem: amputation
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Yes Gnostic, but for me the telling clue in 2011 was the lack of a complete Waratah's coaches change process.
Despite years and years of no S1x prize, the Waratahs management was still, despite all this, not resolved to ensure a radical improvement, they sought timid post-Hickey incrementalism. They lacked the spine and professional courage a la ACT RU for a full restart - one could sense the echoes of 'we are good enough not to need restarting, we just need a freshen up with Rocky back as Captain, we are really proto-champs that just don't quite score enough points'. So Foley was promoted, Bowen was kept on (despite years of seriously uneven backs performance and execution failures) and merely given a 'senior mentor' in Gaffney (whom most in Ireland said was way beyond his best days). All this was the opposite of decisive courage for the franchise, it was an odd combination of overconfidence in the Waratahs' system combined with underconfidence in management's ability to affect real change: 'why take the risk, if we don't really need to'.
I think WJ has a very telling point he made recently: the Tahs are always just good enough and just do enough not to have a good-enough-big-enough crisis to force the idea that a radical restart is required for the entire Tahs system, not just 'incremental improvements' somehow based upon the assumption that a championship is only a tantalizing 5% away, not 50% away in real terms.
So the modern Tahs kind of stagger on, uplifting every 3rd week, 'just off' every second, 'appallingly mediocre' every 4th. And what really worries me this year is that the legion of good posters here who love their Tahs seem to have given up their angry passion, and have settled in to a kind of resigned fondness for the old cardigan and slippers, knowing that a better set of clothes will never emerge, 'another good loss with lots of heart' is enough, and, nowadays, will always be enough. The mood has changed. Like a form of happy defeat.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ok send Campo in - but keep him well away from tackling practice
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I suppose if you can teach a South African to do anything subtly you have a gift
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
It why I have said for a long time that there is a serious flaw in the whole Tahs set up. We see a team that does enough to win. They perform to a level which should achieve the result. They rarely "out perform". So when along comes a side that does out perform as the Cheetahs did last year the Tahs just fall to bits.
I charectised them some time ago as the team that plays "not to lose". I rarely see them playing "to win". There is a difference and regardless of their defensive issues the Rebels last night showed us a team trying to win. Some will argue that the game against the Crusaders showed that same charecter, but I would simply refer those people to the inexplicable kicking of the Tahs. There was no point in so many of those kicks except to get it away from the Tahs line.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Is not kicking to "get it away from the Tahs line" reason enough for a kick?
if the argument is that the kicks for territory to relieve pressure by taking play away from the Tahs try line were poorly executed then fine, but if we have got to a point were arguing a fundamental practice of every rugby team in the world is not appropriate for the Tahs then were going to lose alot more games.
if the argument is that the kicks for territory to relieve pressure by taking play away from the Tahs try line were poorly executed then fine, but if we have got to a point were arguing a fundamental practice of every rugby team in the world is not appropriate for the Tahs then were going to lose alot more games.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
WJ - I am most definitely NOT in the idiotic club that preaches the evils of kicking. The fools who infest the Rugby media in Oz have so many thinking that kicking is bad. Kicking is essential to a good Rugby team, poor kicking is worse than not kicking at all.
My statement is about the intent. The Tahs kicks in that game were aimless. There was no EFFECTIVE chase, even where a kick could actually be contested which from the Tahs is very rare. The kicks did not make touch, so they were poorly executed if that was the intent, but were so very often taken on the full by some of the best counter attacking backs in the game. Yet so many of the kicks were obviously not intended to go into touch as they went straight down the middle of the field. Why? what is the point if not to 'just hoof it away from our line and then we will worry about the next step later.'
Contrast with the Rebels who found space with many of their kicks and could contest for others. There was purpose and generally good execution. This was just an example, an indicator of the mindset of the sides IMO.
The Tahs continually talk about getting the little things right, improving different aspects of their play but these "little things" never change and year on year we see "little things" which show the intent and mindset of the team IMO. Indeed you close your post with the very mindset I am talking about, you are set on not losing so many games instead of winning.
My statement is about the intent. The Tahs kicks in that game were aimless. There was no EFFECTIVE chase, even where a kick could actually be contested which from the Tahs is very rare. The kicks did not make touch, so they were poorly executed if that was the intent, but were so very often taken on the full by some of the best counter attacking backs in the game. Yet so many of the kicks were obviously not intended to go into touch as they went straight down the middle of the field. Why? what is the point if not to 'just hoof it away from our line and then we will worry about the next step later.'
Contrast with the Rebels who found space with many of their kicks and could contest for others. There was purpose and generally good execution. This was just an example, an indicator of the mindset of the sides IMO.
The Tahs continually talk about getting the little things right, improving different aspects of their play but these "little things" never change and year on year we see "little things" which show the intent and mindset of the team IMO. Indeed you close your post with the very mindset I am talking about, you are set on not losing so many games instead of winning.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Yes and it would be hard to find a more passionate Rugby man. The thing that so many don't like to hear is the truth as somebody else sees it and many with fragile egos have had a strained relatioship with Campo.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The good sense in what you say is making my blood boil
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waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
If the Tahs were the rebels, losing to the crusaders by a couple of points would have meant that the game plan of making the kick returnees stay out of the defensive line by never kicking for touch would have been a riviting success.
I think one of the Tahs greatest problems is as it has been the last few years playing to criticism, whilst I don't like what the current back line is doing and the glaring easy fix of bringing barnes closer to the line makes me angry. It doesn't hurt me as much as the forwards give the backs way to much ball. We are almost no longer playing to our strength because we believe running rugby = backs running, I would much rather see 79 minutes of pick and goes gaining inch by inch and frustrating the opposition out of the game than our feeble attempts at throwing it around.
I think one of the Tahs greatest problems is as it has been the last few years playing to criticism, whilst I don't like what the current back line is doing and the glaring easy fix of bringing barnes closer to the line makes me angry. It doesn't hurt me as much as the forwards give the backs way to much ball. We are almost no longer playing to our strength because we believe running rugby = backs running, I would much rather see 79 minutes of pick and goes gaining inch by inch and frustrating the opposition out of the game than our feeble attempts at throwing it around.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
WJ - I dont think the problem with the Tahs kicking needs to be as closely analysed as you have done: in fact to do so may cause one to overlook the fact that whatever they are trying to do, either: they arent doing it or what theyre trying to do is tactically crap. In other words you are rationally assessing it but its irrational either because the plan is no good or the execution is no good.
So its too late in the season to change the execution so lets change the plan: no kicking solves all the problems.
So its too late in the season to change the execution so lets change the plan: no kicking solves all the problems.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Tahs this year have been like an unwanted Chirstmas gift. At the start all nicely wrapped they look just as good as all the other presents and generate much excitement and optimism. Then you open them up and it's socks, but not just any socks, novelty socks! Plus they're personalised so you can't even regift them.
But still at the start of the 2nd half they'll look well wrapped and promising again, just that we'll have lowered our expectation from an iPhone 4S to maybe a stripey jumper, just anything other than socks please!
But still at the start of the 2nd half they'll look well wrapped and promising again, just that we'll have lowered our expectation from an iPhone 4S to maybe a stripey jumper, just anything other than socks please!
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