Wallaby No 10 jersey - Barnes or Cooper?

[Schadenfreude]

I have watched plenty of games of rugby this season.

Elaborate. Or shut up.

You seem to imply that Cooper would only be valuable after the game is won. No player is valuable after the game is won, and if a player were ever to be a liability, it would be in the last 20 minutes.

You haven't noticed Genia is the premier halfback in the country, and doesn't drop of at the end of the game. So why on earth would you replace him, especially since his combination with Cooper is so good.

Lastly Cooper has beefed up his defence, and varied his game (including the Barnes style game) since his injury.

You have noticed none of the above, so that makes me think you haven't actually watched any rugby.

 

[waratahjesus]

I think you have missed the point of cooper being disastrous in the world cup and playing very little football since, his ability in superugby is far greater than his ability in less space at international level.

Saying he would have greater impact against tired defense is nota misjudgment or illustration of lack of rugby knowledge but rather a point of view, much like when the wallabies used to play Phil Waugh for the tough stuff at the start and bring on smith for his running game later.

It's not saying a games won or lost and that's when you bring him on but rather choosing a side on balance with a bench that has the ability to change and impact a game.


As for genia, yes he is the best halfback in the country but playing him to death is not for the benefit of the team and blooding and trusting a back up is for the greater good. I can't remember the last time an all black 9 played a full game, yet we expect genia o be fresh at the 79th minute?

 

[Slim 293]

Deans clearly managed Genia poorly last year compared to 2010.......

In 2010 we had Burgess on in the last 15 mins to help respark the attack.

Deans didn't use his bench wisely last year and Genia was burned out.

We've now got an excellent attacking halfback in White and he should be used instead of playing a tiring Genia late on the game.

 

[Schadenfreude]

And how many reserve backs do you expect to be on the sideline?

If you think Cooper doesn't perform at international level - leave him out of the team. He's not a utility back now is he?

Personally, I think the Wallaby forwards were outmuscled all world cup, and behind a pack going backwards, both Cooper and Genia didn't shine. I'd like you to show an example of a dominant half in a team with the forwards going backwards for comparison.

In any case I think players are a year older now - and many have modified their games in the last year.

 

[waratahjesus]

I'm not arguing that their isn't a case for cooper, my personnel preference is for Barnes at 12 so cooper doesn't have to handle every time. I'm just pointing out that your attack on an opinion was inappropriate as cases can be made for and against cooper.

Let's face it here. We're not arguing about anything other than what we can do to beat the all blacks. In that case,cooper has put a target on himself and will never in my opinion evade the attention enough to provide his A game in a Bledsoe again.

 

[Forcefield]

You seem to imply that Cooper would only be valuable after the game is won. No player is valuable after the game is won, and if a player were ever to be a liability, it would be in the last 20 minutes.

You haven't noticed Genia is the premier halfback in the country, and doesn't drop of at the end of the game. So why on earth would you replace him, especially since his combination with Cooper is so good.

Lastly Cooper has beefed up his defence, and varied his game (including the Barnes style game) since his injury.

You have noticed none of the above, so that makes me think you haven't actually watched any rugby.

You have grossly misunderstood what I was saying.

I would not have Cooper as a bench option for the long term. Just for the first game or two of the RC. I would always choose a fully fit and prepared Cooper over a fully fit and prepared Barnes.
Cooper hasn't played an International match in 9 months and he appeared to be struggling for confidence and form when he did. I think he will need time to get up to the pace of test rugby- especially against New Zealand.

In no way was I implying that Cooper would only be valuable after the game is won. I was suggesting that Cooper would be the impact that would tip the balance in our favour while the scores are deadlocked or if we aren't too far behind. No game against the All Blacks is won until the 80 minute mark (or sometimes after in the case of the Hong Kong test in 2010). Coming on at the 60 minute mark leaves plenty of time to change the game. I think Cooper would be more of an asset than a liability coming off the bench. Particularly if that was part of the game plan.

I am fully appreciative of the fact that Genia and Cooper make an excellent combination. But we haven't had a chance to see if White and Cooper would be similar, and I for one think they would be well suited, and fresh legs and quick ball from the ruck base would increase Cooper's impact. You say that Genia doesn't drop at the end of the game but he's just been through a whole season of pretty much 80 minute performances with little rest. Unless I'm not mistaken he didn't miss any games this year. I am not sure we will see his best if he plays 80 minutes in everyone of the games in the RC. We also risk him getting injured.

I am looking forward to see how Quade performs post-injury. But hasn't he only started 3 or 4 Super Rugby games since his return? To me, that seems a bit premature to say he has beefed up his defence. Was Cooper defending at 10 in those games? I'm sure he has varied his game since the RWC semi and quarter finals. The deer in headlights tactic wasn't working too flash.

Again, I have watched plenty of rugby. What I haven't watched is a lot of Reds rugby. I don't know if you noticed, but I am not actually a Reds fan, although they would be my preferred team after the Force. I did watch the final against the Sharks. I did watch the last round match against Tahs and the match a few weeks before against the Rebels.

 

[Sluggy]

How about Kurtley Beale at 10?

 

[Forcefield]

Definitely a good option. But then who do you put at fullback? Kurtley is far and away the best fullback we have.

 

[Sluggy]

Definitely a good option. But then who do you put at fullback? Kurtley is far and away the best fullback we have.

JOC (James O'Connor) or Drew Mitchell are possibilities, as is Barnes. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played there before (and his kicking is better now) but would rather have him at 13.

KB (Kurtley Beale) could be our best 5/8 as well as our best fullback.

 

[Bullrush]

JOC (James O'Connor) or Drew Mitchell are possibilities, as is Barnes. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played there before (and his kicking is better now) but would rather have him at 13.

KB (Kurtley Beale) could be our best 5/8 as well as our best fullback.

I have often stated here that KB (Kurtley Beale) is possibly the best 10 in Australia nd he's got the skills to be the best in the game.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was making a pretty decent fist of FB back in 2009. This guy needs to play one position though and allowed to flourish in it.

For KB (Kurtley Beale) to really be considered at 10 though, I think he needs to play a Super Rugby season there - 1st choice 10 right from the get-go. Until that happens, he won't have the confidence and the familiarity in the role to really shine.

 

[Jiggles]

Bullrush, it would be nice for Australian backs to be left alone and develop in a specific postion, but I suspect pigs may fly first.

 

[Athilnaur]

If there is one thing that highlights Australia's fragility in terms of depth of players it is the way we constantly expect players to play out of position, then reshuffle them. It's understandable, often inevitable, but hopefully one of the fruits of us finally having a little (little) more depth is we can see some consistency in roles.

I have no doubt Beale could be a superb test 10, he is a proven test performer, and he was superb at 10 for the Rebels. Kurtley made more linebreaks and try assists in his time at halfback than he did at fb. Not surprising perhaps, but consider this - at 0.54 try assists per game Kurtley was second highest on the table for creating try opportunities after Cruden (0.6). Beale was one of the most effective attacking players in the Super Rugby comp this year, making 79.5 meters a game, and having higher offload and linebreak rates than Cruden. (Beale: 1.84, 0.76 vs Cruden:1.46, 0.53). And yet only 1/3 of his time was at 10.

But none of that in my opinion means we should play him at 10. He is a superb fullback. Team the guy up with Digby and a tiny amt of space and as we have all seen he is capable of shattering any line in rugby. A world class fullback.

Cooper/Lealiifano/Barnes are our 10s for me, JOC (James O'Connor) in reserve.

 

[Swat]

I like your thinking ATH but I think we actually have more depth at FB than 10 ATM. I wouldn't mind so much KB (Kurtley Beale) being given a run at 10 for the wallabies but not this season, let him have a year playing at 10 for the rebels before we allow him that opportunity. I personally wouldn't mind KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10, JOC (James O'Connor) 12 (like how I see the rebels next year) but we would lose some counter attacking ability from the back. 2 Dads could be fullback or mitchell next year, or foley. Plus if Taps becomes our starting 12 JOC (James O'Connor) can always play at FB (it's where he started when he first came into the wallabies).

Hmmm, you know what, just going through all this makes me realise how fucking awesome our boys actually are. Just imagine if we had all our boys uninjured and in form.

 

[Bullrush]

Hmmm, you know what, just going through all this makes me realise how fucking awesome our boys actually are. Just imagine if we had all our boys uninjured and in form.

Even as a die-hard AB fan I'd have to agree that there is some awesome talent in the Wallaby back-line. Australia just doesn't have the same depth to cover for those injuries or push players back into form.

And then there's your forward pack.......

I had to laugh when reading that Salesi Maafu wasn't considered due to injury. I would have thought it's because he's useless......

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It's a fair comment about playing guys out of position. The flexibility of individuals in our backline is great, but we also seem to be throwing blokes around between spots without any real plan of how we are going to play. This seems to be an issue for coaches and fans alike. Our best teams have had settled combinations and the guys playing have been allowed time to work their way into them. Once the method and patterns of play were decided upon, there wasn't a lot of chopping and changing, certainly not the amount we've seen in the last few years. Some of that has been injury related, granted, but not all of it.