Wallaby injuries: poor diet?

[hawktrain]

Somewhat related - in today's environment, you get guys who are great athletes, but not great rugby players. Pierre Spies falls into this category for a lot of people. You look at a lot of the All Blacks, and they're clearly in excellent shape, but that doesn't override their rugby ability. You don't look at them and say 'wow he's a great athlete', you say 'he's a hell of a player'. Look at Eben Etzebeth from SA: the first thing people say about him is that he's freakishly tall and has the biggest biceps you've ever seen on a rugby player. But I personally have never been that impressed by him - physique is not everything for a rugby player.

This might be a bit harsh but I think a few Wallabies fall into this category: big, strong, fast, physically intimidating, but really not up to it when it comes to the rugby. A couple of examples for me would be Tapuai and Higginbotham.

 

[Piggy]

To en extent, yes. Though, if you read just how much processing modern veges go through/what they're doused with chemical wise, before they make the supermarket shelves, I think you'd be absolutely horrified. To the point where the farmers who grow these crops are on record saying they'd never eat their own produce (the stuff that is then sold). How much is left of whatever nutrients/vitamins were in there originally, only a scientist could work out.

You probably shouldn't listen to the health food shops, their knowledge of nutrition is generally derived from the University of Google. You could always look up the nutrition content of your food through various nutrition databases, such as this one.

http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/con...010onlinesearchabledatabase/onlineversion.cfm

That milk in NZ isn't the pasteurised/homogenised stuff we get here, which is basically just dead. Humans started drinking milk thousands of years ago for the vitamins/cultures/lipids and the raw energy and sustenance it provides.

Milk in New Zealand is pasteurised/homogenised just like it is in Australia, we share the same food standards body. We started drinking milk because it was there and you could harvest it when you wanted with no requirement for storage and without needing to kill the animal delivering it.

You don't have too worry about the food you find around the outskirts of your local supermarket, it's safe, it's healthy and it will provide the nutrients joe public and elite athletes require - they are just luckier and get to eat more of it. You don't need activated almonds.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Fast bowler Jeff Thomson cited his job of loading 150kg bales of wool onto trains as a reason for his lack of injuries (excluding collisions with team mates).

 

[D-Box]

Don't blame the nutritionists or the S&C guys. The reality is that many of the injuries - particularly the soft tissue ones are most likely due to the schedule. (See this blog post from the British Journal of Sports Medicine re injury and the number of soccer games http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2012/06/20/who-is-to-blame-for-all-the-football-injuries/) When you look at who got the really bad injuries, it was the guys who probably carried the highest workload over 2011/2012 so blame it on the administrator. There is prehaps some blame to be had for those who kept getting reinjured on the coaching staff. If you are injured you do need to give time to get back to full performance and the S&C and medical staff should be the primary people making this call - not the coach or the player. I don't think you will find many players around who are will say, no I don't think I am right this week give me another. Normally it is the other way around and the coach who has just had his best player declare himself fit would normally jump at the chance to put them on the field. Considering this injury pattern ran through the Super 15 season it cannot just be blamed on the Wallaby staff but rather appears to be a major issue running through all clubs.

For the contact injuries and even Ginea's ACL the research would tell you that sometimes they just happen - no matter what injury prevention training you do.

 

[Dan54]

Actually was reading an article this morning that suggested Wallabies injuries are partly because they are playing as individuals,ie not gang tackling etc, so are getting knocked around more. Mind you it was by Mark Reason, in a general saying how bad Wallabies are at moment, so not sure if I would want to take much notice.

 

[en_force_er]

funny, I've never noticed them - although Collins did look like a freak, I'd forgotten about him.

I can't believe I forgot about Messam and SBW, both have player for the ABs and performed admirably and both look like they could be fitness models.

Bellow is a quick like for like google between what I would argue are their nation's best wingers.

What I'm trying to say is, I doubt it's anything more than hard training and good genetics.

 

[Dan54]

(As for the working on farms and chasing sheep to get fit (har har). Nope, afraid that's not the secret. Hore would be the only AB left that does any work on a farm, and that is for the 6 and half minutes that international players have off each year between the end of year tour and the start of the Super season!)
I think waht Cyclo was talking about Bart was that ABs do use this kind of thing as part of fitness, before one of tests this year I also read that Hore and Woodcock went back to farm and were dehorning cattle, Sam Whitelock and one other were actually pig hunting, it is not done as and alternative to fitness, but the feeling seemed to be that on test week it helped to keep bodies and minds active by doing physical things, not just usual training. I having trouble arguing with reasoning on what I have seen so far.

 

[AlexH]

Surely the physical routine of farm work could be built in the gym?

The gym is a controlled enviroment. You have a set number of exercises, sets and reps. You have a spotter. You have air conditioning.

Property work is different. You are given a job and you are told when it needs to be done by. It might be digging post holes for a fence. You do not know how hard the ground is going to be and you do not know how long it will take. Sometimes you might be digging through soft soil and other times you might be trying to crack through concrete, bed rock or tree roots. You do not have the option of stopping because you are being paid. You do not have the option of going soft because you want to keep your job. The job is not done until the job is not done.

Property work is partly an attitude. People who are good at property work have a hard edge. Its not about numbers its about getting shit done.

You cannot replicate property work in a gym environment. That is what strongman workouts are all about and it is not the same.

 

[Hardtackle]

My diet's crap but I don't get injured. That said, not really likely to do a hammy walking to the fridge from the couch.

 

[p.Tah]

If you suffer pain from osteoarthritis the first recommendation a doctors makes is for you to lose weight. The more you weight the greater the pressure on your joints/ligaments etc. and the greater the bone on bone pain you suffer.

I wonder if the same theory applies to Rugby players these days. They bulk up to create more strength but is that extra weight (combined with longer seasons and training) causing them more of these lower legs injuries? No proof just a hunch.

 

[Jnor]

The job is not done until the job is not done.

This.

Also, I find activated almonds help me out in my non-A/C gym

 

[D-Box]

If you suffer pain from osteoarthritis the first recommendation a doctors makes is for you to lose weight. The more you weight the greater the pressure on your joints/ligaments etc. and the greater the bone on bone pain you suffer.

I wonder if the same theory applies to Rugby players these days. They bulk up to create more strength but is that extra weight (combined with longer seasons and training) causing them more of these lower legs injuries? No proof just a hunch.

The first statement is mostly true, but the increase loads show up in the bone-on-bone forces but only in a minor way on the ligaments. As you increase stresses on ligaments they will increase in size/thickness to support this load. Simple physics will tell you that size has the potential in increase the severity and risk of contact injuries, but size in its self is probably not going to increase the number of lower limb injuries. The increase in lower limb injuries is more to do with how your training affects you lower limb mechanics and specific muscle strength and how you turn your muscle on. Two examples:

You rip your hamstrings at the end of when you are swinging your leg. The hamstrings are actually working eccentrically then - actively firing but getting longer. This means that just doing hammy curls might get your hammy's stronger but not in the way they are actually used when running. You need to rather include exercises where you mimic the eccentric loads - lowering a weight that is heaver than you can lift, or hamstring lowers - where you have someone kneel on your feet and you try and lower your body as close to the ground as you can.

For ACL injuries the muscles around the knee can absorb most of the forces being applied - protecting the ACL. However this only works if you have your hammys and quads turned on as you hit the ground. Unfortunately isolated weights training causes the hammys to turn down relative to the quads at this time point increasing your risk of injury. You need to include plyometrics and balance training to mitigate this change in activation.

There are heaps of lower limb injury prevention programs out there but the biggest problem with most of them is they focus on one injury only. Most of the S&C coaches will (or should) be bringing components from all of these programs together to design there own to help their players. There are a few large scale trials on injury prevention programs that target multiple injuries such as the FIFA11+ for soccer and one being trialled in Vic for AFL through Monash, Ballarat and Griffith unis. However I don't know of one targeted specifically for Rugby. Maybe I should hit them up for some funds...

Still think that this time round it was just too many games

 

[cyclopath]

This.

Also, I find activated almonds help me out in my non-A/C gym

Is it a DC gym only, no mains? I thought Sydney Uni had more money than that, Jack. Or do the exercise bikes power the lights?

 

[Jnor]

Very funny cyclopath although I think you may have to ask Bruce Ross about it - I have a feeling he might be diverting the air con to his place.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Is it a DC gym only, no mains? I thought Sydney Uni had more money than that, Jack. Or do the exercise bikes power the lights?

Very funny cyclopath although I think you may have to ask Bruce Ross about it - I have a feeling he might be diverting the air con to his place.

Air conditioning in a grunt gym? Bloody student wusses. Australian rugby has been going backwards ever since they started providing hot water for the after game showers, although in my first years in Illawarra rugby none of the grounds had dressing sheds so we'd all go back to the pub in our jerseys still caked with mud and drink on regardless.
.

 

[It is what it is]

Air conditioning in a grunt gym? Bloody student wusses. Australian rugby has been going backwards ever since they started providing hot water for the after game showers, although in my first years in Illawarra rugby none of the grounds had dressing sheds so we'd all go back to the pub in our jerseys still caked with mud and drink on regardless.
.

Did you wear those shorts where you inserted the square sponge into the inside pockets too?
What about comic books down your socks?

 

[en_force_er]

Air conditioning in a grunt gym? Bloody student wusses. Australian rugby has been going backwards ever since they started providing hot water for the after game showers, although in my first years in Illawarra rugby none of the grounds had dressing sheds so we'd all go back to the pub in our jerseys still caked with mud and drink on regardless.
.

Bit of Monty Python's "Four Yorkshiremen" influence there Bruce?

 

[Bruce Ross]

Did you wear those shorts where you inserted the square sponge into the inside pockets too?

Of course, Iiwii, and not just on the field. Very sharp leisure wear. I'm waiting for them to come back into fashion. The strange thing is that after people stopped wearing them I've never heard of anyone going off with a bruised hip bone.

What about comic books down your socks?

Not comic books. I wore the thickest shin pads I could find. At least half an inch thick with vertical bamboo inserts. An important part of the loose head prop's role was to act as a secondary hooker. If the ball was still in the tunnel after the strike you used your left foot to hook it back. If you were any good at it you earned the lifelong friendship of your hooker and the fury of the opposing tight head who would hack your shins as the scrum broke up. Having heavy duty shin pads meant that you could return the favour with enthusiasm long after play had moved off across the field.
.

 

[It is what it is]

Of course, Iiwii, and not just on the field. Very sharp leisure wear. I'm waiting for them to come back into fashion. The strange thing is that after people stopped wearing them I've never heard of anyone going off with a bruised hip bone.

Not comic books. I wore the thickest shin pads I could find. At least half an inch thick with vertical bamboo inserts. An important part of the loose head prop's role was to act as a secondary hooker. If the ball was still in the tunnel after the strike you used your left foot to hook it back. If you were any good at it you earned the lifelong friendship of your hooker and the fury of the opposing tight head who would hack your shins as the scrum broke up. Having heavy duty shin pads meant that you could return the favour with enthusiasm long after play had moved off across the field.
.

Great stuff Bruce.
So how tough was Sir Nick Shehadie when he played 1st grade club rugby as a prop at 15 years of age?
If only some (NOT ALL) of our Wallabies removed themselves from their fancy diets, scientific training and pampered cocoons to spent some time with the great man they'd gain a heightened respect about playing for the Wallabies.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Speaking of diet and fitness and blokes from the Shaky Isles, How would you like to be Braeden and Caroline Whitelock? They have raised and fed the four Whitelock brothers, all of whom are professional/semiprofessional rugby players: Geroge Whitelock, Adam Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, and Luke Whitelock.

The tucker bill at the Whitelock residence must have been immense when those boys were growing up.