Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Even Deans was better than Cheika.
FUCK - did I really say that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FUCK - did I really say that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wallaby Coaching Staff
- Thread starter Scrubber2050
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Some stats for you. Coaches in the pro-era, plus Dwyer and Jones just for the sake of it.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
While we are graphing, I've always like this one - showing the average margin against the All Blacks by year.
It might be getting worse
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It might be getting worse
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kiap
Steve Williams (59)
And shows it well for the pro era.
Is it adjusted for point values at the time? That could change the variance of the olden days.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Well I don't think we will see an improvement in Cheks stats tonight.
That seems to be the trend though. He managed a heap of wins up to the RWC and it's been a steady decline ever since. How long since they won 4 games in a row?
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Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Podcast 281 is very revealing about Cheika by some knowledgeable guys.
The 45% success rate is there for all to see and hear.
Some chat about the "dressing room"
Anyway I'd have thought this Thread would have been humming but same old excuses will be rammed out by the same old Chekmob
The 45% success rate is there for all to see and hear.
Some chat about the "dressing room"
Anyway I'd have thought this Thread would have been humming but same old excuses will be rammed out by the same old Chekmob
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
IMHO, two things need to be considered in the discussion:
1. the general state of the game in Australia is at it lowest point in the professional era. The performance of the super sides reflects what has happened/is happening at the levels below over an extended period. By any form of logical, rational analysis this must impact on the Wallabies. It's simply ludicrous to suggest that players who've been coached by Gibson, Stiles, Magann et al, and have barely won a game in a season of professional rugby can be made to undergo some sort of transformation on being picked for Australia. National pride only carries you so far.
2. No one has yet put forward a credible and available alternative who would even on the balance of probabilities be better than Cheika. Just as there were few alternatives when Cheika took over, there's very few if any now who are proven successful coaches at the professional level.
As an aside, I notice from RR's stats that the much maligned Alan Jones seems to have started the Australian rugby revivial in the early 1980s
1. the general state of the game in Australia is at it lowest point in the professional era. The performance of the super sides reflects what has happened/is happening at the levels below over an extended period. By any form of logical, rational analysis this must impact on the Wallabies. It's simply ludicrous to suggest that players who've been coached by Gibson, Stiles, Magann et al, and have barely won a game in a season of professional rugby can be made to undergo some sort of transformation on being picked for Australia. National pride only carries you so far.
2. No one has yet put forward a credible and available alternative who would even on the balance of probabilities be better than Cheika. Just as there were few alternatives when Cheika took over, there's very few if any now who are proven successful coaches at the professional level.
As an aside, I notice from RR's stats that the much maligned Alan Jones seems to have started the Australian rugby revivial in the early 1980s
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Jake White.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
White - No way. As soon as something didn't go his way or he got a criticism wold he throw his toys and walk out, again. Apart from that his would be the most unimaginative game plan seen in Australia outside Hickey/Foley.
There are other options, Australian options overseas.
In any case its a moot point, Cheika will not be terminated and he will not resign. I think we all know that when Cheika goes Larkham has been guaranteed the position, it would after all fit all the ARU/RA position appointment rules, carpark occupancy. Actual performance and ability is not a selection criteria in any ARU/RA job it would seem.
There are other options, Australian options overseas.
In any case its a moot point, Cheika will not be terminated and he will not resign. I think we all know that when Cheika goes Larkham has been guaranteed the position, it would after all fit all the ARU/RA position appointment rules, carpark occupancy. Actual performance and ability is not a selection criteria in any ARU/RA job it would seem.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Yeah I know we are stuck with the bloke, sadly.
There are better choices in world rugby methinks. In fact I'm just about ready to try anyone.
Couldn't do much worse than this bloke. Seriously 45%.
I honestly think most coaches in Australia even, with the players in the squad would achieve at least that statistic. Bloke lost players awhile ago and reckon it is impossible he'll ever get them back (except for the "favourites and newbies who got their jersey cheap).
By keeping Grey is another bad decision. We have just been flogged by England and Scotland (yep Scotland) and we leaked a truckload of points against the Japanese. Does Chek have the nerve to make the hard decisions? It appears not !
There are better choices in world rugby methinks. In fact I'm just about ready to try anyone.
Couldn't do much worse than this bloke. Seriously 45%.
I honestly think most coaches in Australia even, with the players in the squad would achieve at least that statistic. Bloke lost players awhile ago and reckon it is impossible he'll ever get them back (except for the "favourites and newbies who got their jersey cheap).
By keeping Grey is another bad decision. We have just been flogged by England and Scotland (yep Scotland) and we leaked a truckload of points against the Japanese. Does Chek have the nerve to make the hard decisions? It appears not !
duckbill
Ward Prentice (10)
A lot of truths in the podcast, I'm also of the opinion that he needs to go now so there is time to start again. I see no light at the end of the chieka tunnel, just more pantsings and disappointment
But I doubt anything will happen given the calibre of the ARU (or whatever else they are called now...) leadership...
But I doubt anything will happen given the calibre of the ARU (or whatever else they are called now...) leadership...
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
A tragic sidelight is that the mainstream media now care so little about Union that a stat far worse than Deans attracts no widespread calls for his removal.
I guess this is what he bottom of the barrel looks and feels like.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Probably because Deans was a "foreigner" and there's some sort of fetish in too many rugby circles regarding the nationality of the Wallaby head coach. As if there's some magical thing about being born on a rock in the middle of the Pacific that means only you can relate to other men born on the same rock. As if an Aussie isn't coaching the English side that has made us their whipping boys and a Kiwi isn't coaching the best Irish side in modern history.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Sadly I don't think we're at rock bottom yet as a game. This is just another symptom of the same disease which afflicts the rest of the body.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Yes Gnostic, the even greater tragedy is that even assuming that Cheika was sacked tomorrow, the ARU/RA wouldn't be conducting a worldwide search for the most competant and qualifed person available. As evidence, we now see Kearns on the shortlist as the next CEO. Larkham would be a bigger disaster than Cheika, and as you say he is the annointed one so I see sacking Cheika as solving nothng - like the Force getting rid of Richard Graham and appointing Michael Foley.. And in case I haven't made the point on this thread yet (I've made it elsewhere); I was almost alone in advocating Eddie Jones to take over from Link. I made the point at the time that Cheika hadn't finished his job at the Waratahs and he needed another 2 or 3 years in that role to properly prepare him for the Wallaby job. Just as those of us who were voices in the wilderness on the complete incompetence of the ARU and State RUs in running the game have been proven correct. I think I've been proven correct in this as well - particularly when one compares the recent international coaching records of EJ (Eddie Jones) and MC.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Yes, a very interesting podcast. Thought I was again just an outlier with my thoughts on the WB coaching. Not so much it seems.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I appreciate (but don't agree with) that Larkham is the heir apparent.
Great player blah blah but he has been heavily influenced by Cheika in the coaching department in recent years. That is a fault in itself. If you get rid of the rot then cut it all out.
Mario has gone thankfully. Chek didn't push him, he left on his own accord,
Chek's decision making in some selections, positional changes, public speaking has just been poor and not too many guys (and gals) are coming out in their man love for the bloke - whereas in the past he has been lauded by quite a few on here and excuses made left and right in their support of him.
We have a bunch of players that are capable of better and more consistent performances than we have seen under Chek and Co.
We need a national coach and a coaching team that can deliver that consistent high level performances each and every Test.
Great player blah blah but he has been heavily influenced by Cheika in the coaching department in recent years. That is a fault in itself. If you get rid of the rot then cut it all out.
Mario has gone thankfully. Chek didn't push him, he left on his own accord,
Chek's decision making in some selections, positional changes, public speaking has just been poor and not too many guys (and gals) are coming out in their man love for the bloke - whereas in the past he has been lauded by quite a few on here and excuses made left and right in their support of him.
We have a bunch of players that are capable of better and more consistent performances than we have seen under Chek and Co.
We need a national coach and a coaching team that can deliver that consistent high level performances each and every Test.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
What about Link's 50% success rate? What about Dean's 58% win rate?
The Northern Hemisphere was a lot weaker during their tenure's and our Super Rugby teams were a lot stronger.
All I'm saying is there's not a massive difference, despite our relatively poor results.
Perhaps Australian Rugby just isn't that strong relative to the rest of the world anymore.
Personally, I love watching the team play, the process, and am less fussed about the black-and-white results.
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