Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[wamberal]

Benn Robinson was one of the best on the field last night.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

i thought Palu was pretty good at times last night, really made an impact. the problem i see is that Skelton has forced his way into the starting XV, but that has a serious affect on who we have to play in the backrow. so we either dont pick skelton whos are best lock or we dont pick our best backrowers and pick lineout jumpers.

 

[something]

Palu had a pretty serious negative involvement in the first 2 tries.

 

[wamberal]

i thought Palu was pretty good at times last night, really made an impact. the problem i see is that Skelton has forced his way into the starting XV, but that has a serious affect on who we have to play in the backrow. so we either dont pick skelton whos are best lock or we dont pick our best backrowers and pick lineout jumpers.

Skelton is a powerful runner and defender, but we are in deep doo-doo if our best lock cannot be a dominant lineout jumper. Lineouts are at the top of most CVs for the world's best locks.

 

[dru]

I really like the shape of King's team, and I'm hoping that it's close to how we shape up for RC. But expect a gradual shift back to more Waratahs as we approach the RWC.

Let's not get too down on Phipps. His delivery got messy with a swarming defence, but IT WAS STILL QUICK. On form Genia would possibly have smothered and increased stepping before passing and set up a much deeper attack in the process. Both have strengths, but you need to adapt positional play or selections to strengthen the downsides. Phipps over Genia for me still.

Foley remains a great distributor, not a play maker. And his boot was off. Is this just a bad game? Predictable behaviour under pressure? We also need to think through the left footed kicker thing. You don't absolutely need one if the long defensive winger on that side has a long pass to an in field right foot kicker. QC (Quade Cooper) (even Genia) comes to mind, as long as everyone gets over protecting players in defence.

Look, Skelton gets my nod. But set piece, oh boy!

We have to pick two genuine jumpers in the loose forwards. I'm struggling to go past Fardy and Higenbotham. Which means the style of game we play, the level (or not) of hard hitting loosies, is dictated by Skelton. Is he that good? I'm happy with Skelton as the 4th jumper albeit an unopposed jumper to be used rarely.

Scrum, we need breakaways that push. Locks too, Skel is doing OK elsewhere but someone needs to get right up him in the scrum.

End of the day Simmons is a lock. Hooper out, Fardy in. Not sure about Pocock, reconsider Gill. Higgers to 8. And these are big calls just to keep Skelton in the start line up. We end up with a comparatively wide playing bunch of loosies and a game plan to work it. Not ideal at international level.

Or pick, perhaps Dennis and leave Skel on the bench. As I said, Skelton is shaping up, but is he good enough to be prepared to impact the shape of the team.

Get on with it Cheika, lots of work to do.

 

[wamberal]

Forget about Dennis as a Test match lock. His lineout work is not up to it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dennis is most definitely up to it on line out work.

His issue is scrummaging and having physical impact in tight. Seems to have improved that in 2015 though. Going to be hard to leave him out of the 31.

 

[Highlander35]

I think Dennis misses because you can only carry one "small" lock, and Jones takes that spot. I also think Fardy, Palu, Higgenbotham and McCalman also take the 4 non-openside backrowers spots.

But all it would take is an injury to one of those 5, and he'd be in the squad, and from there, I'd be more than happy for him to be in the 23.

 

[Ruggo]

Skelton is a powerful runner and defender, but we are in deep doo-doo if our best lock cannot be a dominant lineout jumper. Lineouts are at the top of most CVs for the world's best locks.

Putting the man love aside and the fetish for size (surely which was debunked last night), we need to ask if his selection is worth the balance issues it creates in the pack selection? I think Skelton has had a bloody good year and full credit to him but the question still lingers and it isn't going away.

 

[TheKing]

Just did a spot of research in to how big the average lineout options were around the world.

Of course height isn't a perfect indicator of wing-span, but it's the best information available to the public.

It appears Rory Arnold is the joint-tallest lock in the world at 208 cm (6'10).

Adam Coleman is the closest Australian equivalent to Eben Etzebeth and Brodie Rettalick, the trio all coming up exactly 204 cm tall (6'8) each, and all weighing in between 122-125 kilograms. The trio range from 23-24 years old.

Interestingly, Ben McCalman and Dave Dennis are considered lineout options at 192 cm. Meanwhile, Lopeti Timani is considered "too short" at 193 cm - the same height as All Black lineout weapon Kieran Read.

Timani weighs just four kilograms more than Dennis, and six kilograms more than Read.

Ita Vaea, whom I earlier compared to Jerome Kaino, is a full nine centimetres shorter than the All Black. Lopeti Timani is just three cm shorter.

Wycliff Palu is three kilograms heavier than Timani, and only one cm taller.

Those claiming that Scott Fardy is too slight to pack at lock in an international scrum may be surprised to learn that Fardy is the exact same height as 2013 British and Irish Lions Locks Alun Wyn Jones, Paul O'Connell and Joe Launchbury, while weighing in three kilograms heavier than the eternal Irish captain.

Fardy is also taller than locks Luke Jones, Sam Wykes, Adam Thompson, Jerome Kaino, Scott Higginbotham and all three starting Springbok loose forwards.

At "just" 200 cm tall, Rob Simmons is the shortest primary lineout target in top-tier Rugby.

Australian Super Rugby lineout options
Rory Arnold - 208 cm, 127 kg
Will Skelton - 204 cm, 148 kg
Adam Coleman - 204 cm, 122 kg
Cadeyrn Neville - 202 cm, 120 kg
James Horwill - 201 cm, 117 kg
Rob Simmons - 200 cm, 115 kg
Sam Carter - 200 cm, 110 kg
Scott Fardy - 198 cm, 113 kg
Luke Jones - 197 cm, 111 kg
Sam Wykes - 197 cm, 109 kg
Adam Thomson - 196 cm, 112 kg
Scott Higginbotham - 195 cm, 110 kg
Wycliff Palu - 194 cm, 120 kg
Jacques Potgieter - 194 cm, 115 kg
Lopeti Timani - 193 cm, 117 kg
Dave Dennis - 192 cm, 113 kg
Ben McCalman - 192 cm, 109 kg
Jake Schatz - 190 cm, 104 kg
Ita Vaea - 187 cm, 119 kg
Sean McMahon - 186 cm, 100 kg
Liam Gill - 185 cm, 105 kg
David Pocock - 184 cm, 104 kg
Matt Hodgson - 184 cm, 103 kg
Michael Hooper - 182 cm, 101 kg

Springboks
Lode de Jager - 205 cm, 125 kg
Eben Etzebeth - 204 cm, 123 kg
Bakkies Botha - 202 cm, 124 kg
Duane Vermuelen - 193 cm, 116 kg
Willem Alberts - 192 cm, 120 kg
Marcell Coetzee - 191 cm, 112 kg

All Blacks
Brodie Retallick - 204 cm, 121 kg
Sam Whitelock - 202 cm, 116 kg
James Broadhurst - 201 cm, 122 kg
Luke Romano - 199 cm, 115 kg
Jeremy Thrush - 198 cm, 115 kg
Jerome Kaino - 196 cm, 113 kg
Kieran Read - 193 cm, 111 kg
Liam Messam - 190 cm, 108 kg
Sam Cane - 189 cm, 104 kg
Richie McCaw - 188 cm, 106 kg

England
Courtney Lawes - 201 cm, 119 kg
Dave Attwood - 201 cm, 115 kg
Joe Launchbury - 198 cm, 117 kg
Sam Burgess - 196 cm, 116 kg
Tom Wood - 193 cm, 113 kg
Ben Morgan - 191 cm, 116 kg
Chris Robshaw - 188 cm, 110 kg


Best of the Rest
Richie Gray (SCO) - 208 cm, 128 kg
Tomas Lavanini (ARG) - 201 cm, 130 kg
Mattias Alemanno (ARG) - 199 cm, 117 kg
Alun Wyn Jones (WAL) - 198 cm, 118 kg
Josh Strauss (SCO) - 198 cm, 117 kg
Paul O'Connell (IRE) - 198 cm, 110 kg
Pascal Pepe (FRA) - 195 cm, 118 kg
Fenandez Lobbe (ARG) - 193 cm, 108 kg
Louis Picamoles (FRA) - 192 cm, 116 kg
Juan Leguizamon (ARG) - 190 cm, 104 kg
Thierry Dusatoir (FRA) - 188 cm, 100 kg

 

[oztimmay]

Out of interest, does anyone else know when the rest of the 41 man squad is announced?

 

[Ruggo]

Simmons is in and I don't think anybody argues that. The conundrum is that Skelton is the form lock but Horwill is the second best lineout lock in Australia. Horwill is down on form but that lineout skill is so crucial to test rugby. Arnold and Colman have shown the promise to have what it takes.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Simmons is in and I don't think anybody argues that. The conundrum is that Skelton is the form lock but Horwill is the second best lineout lock in Australia. Horwill is down on form but that lineout skill is so crucial to test rugby. Arnold and Colman have shown the promise to have what it takes.

And second best scrum option I think. It would be a real headache for the selectors - Skelton's size and it's impact around the paddock (both good and bad), Horwill's set piece work and his ability when at his best with the ball and his defence (albeit his best consistent work is about 4 years ago), the inexperience but significant size and motor of Coleman, or the workhorses of Jones, Dennis, etc.

I'm pretty confident that despite the injuries throughout the season the Reds were the top of the tree at set piece time - the question is whether Cheika and the coaching group can improve those key players enough in their running game and the defensive frailties that seemed built into their game plan.

 

[Ruggo]

Wallabies need to start any test with the best set piece available to them. We have the cattle in the backs to tear opponents a new arsehole if we can play from a strong set piece. The time and space that fist phase offers could be a big advantage to us.

 

[barbarian]

The problem at the lineout last night was not just a lack of options. There were missed throws, miscommunication, lack of urgency and a few really good reads from the Highlanders. If you replaced Skelton with Horwill you still would have had the same issues.

I thought last night strengthened Skelton's case. He was the only bloke out there that played with test-level physicality for the whole 80 minutes. We are going to need that in spades in the RWC.
.

 

[light]

We need someone at the back with a boot and I'm thinking it will be KB (Kurtley Beale). Not sure which of Folau or he will be named at 15 but I'm guessing they would play a bit of switcheroo. The cheika interview re harmichael though was an interesting development, it points to him being tested back there during the RC.

Folau is still our best 15 by a country mile. Our other options are Mogg, JOC (James O'Connor), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and the unknown Hunt. In three of those cases 15 isn't their best position.

Unless Cooper and Folau are switching between 10 and 15, we need one of the back three to kick. Step forward Drew Mitchell.

 

[KOB1987]

Folau is still our best 15 by a country mile. Our other options are Mogg, JOC (James O'Connor), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and the unknown Hunt. In three of those cases 15 isn't their best position.

Unless Cooper and Folau are switching between 10 and 15, we need one of the back three to kick. Step forward Drew Mitchell.

I'm not suggesting Folau won't be picked, only that we need someone else back there with a boot, which you generally concur with. He may well settle on AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for that role but his boot isn't that strong either so the likely options are Beale or Mitchell, and it sounds like Khunt will also be tested there if he makes the cut. I wouldn't rule out JOC (James O'Connor) either but it sure as shit won't be Mogg.

 

[Benaud]

I reckon outside the front row and Folau, the whole side is open slather. The hardest question in the locks is whether to play Skelton - and that decision has a huge bearing on who fills 6 and 8. Pocock vs Hooper is still up in the air and there is even chat of both. And the rest of the back line is anyone's guess. There are 4 serious candidates for each of 9, 10 and 12, 2 for 13 and at least 7 on the wings. And with Giteau back, the bench could easily be 6-2, just to throw more spanners in the works. It's gunna be an important Rugby Championship to nut out all these spots!

 

[BDA]

Well the plus side of the Aussie teams going out is that our players will get an extra week of rest. Some of them are in need of some time off, the brumbies players in particular.

Not sure why the Tahs didn't turn up last night, but that really was a feature of their 2015 season. They had a number of games where they just didn't turn up and were rolled by lesser teams. I wonder if that has anything to do with Cheika having a second job to worry about

The Brumbies were really up against it and I'm going to give them a pass. History would tell us it near impossible to go to SA for the finals, win, and then go to NZ for the semis and win again, particularly given that the Canes have really played the best footy this season, and deserve to win. No shame in losing that one.

Look on the bright side, at least we did better than the Souht Africans!
On to the test season!

 

[emuarse]

Benn Robinson was one of the best on the field last night.

What concerns me was that the Highlanders forwards don't have a single regular All Black, yet were able to manage the Waratahs 8.
This doesn't auger well for the Wallabies - the selectors are really going to have to nut out the pack, and I feel that in the start on side that means only one, at the most two of those Waratah forwards who played last night.