Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Viking]

Of course. No-one is saying he is a certainty to be MoTM against the All Blacks. Just that he is the best 8 we have at the moment, regardless of opposition.

And it's not like he's played dozens of games against the ABs and Boks and constantly disappointed. He would have only started in a couple (one of which he WAS good in), and come off the bench in a few more (again showing decent form).

By some of that logic we shouldn't pick a guy like Henry Speight either, because he's never played the ABs and Boks and we don't know that he will perform.
.

I don't know if he is the best number 8. Palu is ending the season strong and Higgers had a good season too - and he has a greater skillset.

And in my opinion none of our options are proven Test players - so in reality the number 8 is going to be picked on potential. (the potential to perform against the AB's or Boks)

Maybe McCalman is the most likely player to fullfil that potential - the EOYT certainly backs this claim, but I don't think he is the clear cut favourite as many posters have put it, given that is is only based on potential.

So I guess the connection with Speight is the same, in that both players are picked on potential not past performances.

 

[wamberal]

What?


Putting McCalman and Speight into the same category is a bit of a stretch. The latter is a newbie, the former is a World Cup veteran.


Or have I missed something?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Alan Jones shows how out of touch he is on espnscrum today.

http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/267229.html

"Hooper an Astonishing Captain"

"I rank Hooper, Michael Hooper, as one of the finest captains rugby has ever had"

"First, he leads by example. Second, you've got to be loyal to your players. You're not loyal to a fault; so in the Argentinian fiasco with that women (Di Patston) in the team, there was a suggestion that certain players would be sent home. Hooper intervened; he said: 'won't happen, not unless you want all of them to go home"

"Now these are the tough things about being a captain; this is a young bloke, experienced beyond his years and his leadership is astonishing," Jones said. "And we've had some great results under this kid. And the disgraceful behaviour of the Australian Rugby Union on the Beale affair; leaking to one or two of their favourite people in the media: 'well, after this is over we'll be looking at the captaincy'. This is nonsense."

Is this bloke for real? I'm a huge fan of Hooper as a player but even his most loyal supporters would admit the Wallabies struggled for leadership under him in 2014, and that the Beale saga was one of the biggest black marks on his captaincy.

Also Australia had one of it's worst years in professionalism "under this kid", not some great results. Not meaning to criticize Hooper for it, but note it's just completely untrue.

Want to know why rugby in Australia is so fucked? Pathetic "journalism" like this.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's not pathetic journalism. It's just a bad opinion by a person who unfortunately has a big enough public profile that their opinion gets heard.

The reality is that people (for reasons I struggle to understand) care what Alan Jones thinks.

 

[Strewthcobber]

"Hooper an Astonishing Captain"

"I rank Hooper, Michael Hooper, as one of the finest captains rugby has ever had

"Now these are the tough things about being a captain; this is a young bloke, experienced beyond his years and his leadership is astonishing," Jones said. "And we've had some great results under this kid.

Do you reckon Jones thinks he's captain of the Waratahs?......

 

[Train Without a Station]

Seeking out the opinion with a knowingly biased person who has had their integrity and honesty questioned (cash for comments) who often has an axe to grind? Sounds like pathetic journalism to me.

One of the most important tenets of journalism is the pursuit of the truth. Are you getting this with Alan Jones? Doubtful.

 

[Braveheart81]

Seeking out the opinion with a knowingly biased person who has had their integrity and honesty questioned (cash for comments) who often has an axe to grind? Sounds like pathetic journalism to me.

One of the most important tenets of journalism is the pursuit of the truth. Are you getting this with Alan Jones? Doubtful.

It's Alan Jones' opinion. He's a former Wallaby coach and a public figure. You'd have to assume Alan Jones' opinion is entirely truthful.

Whether or not his opinion is stupid or not doesn't matter. It's still his opinion and that is all that is published.

It would be poor journalism if the writer had used that opinion to support their argument that Hooper should be captain in 2015 for all the reasons you've cited. They haven't though. They've just published Alan Jones' opinion.

 

[Viking]

Seeking out the opinion with a knowingly biased person who has had their integrity and honesty questioned (cash for comments) who often has an axe to grind? Sounds like pathetic journalism to me.

One of the most important tenets of journalism is the pursuit of the truth. Are you getting this with Alan Jones? Doubtful.

It's obvious the goal of the article is to persuade the readers to back Hooper as Captain. Which is a horrible purpose of an article. Like you said absolutely no pursuit of the truth.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's obvious the goal of the article is to persuade the readers to back Hooper as Captain. Which is a horrible purpose of an article. Like you said absolutely no pursuit of the truth.

Why do you think that?

If Eddie Jones comes out with a string of quotes saying that Stephen Moore should be captain, they'd also publish that.

If ESPNscrum were trying to use Jones' comments do convince readers presumably they would have done more than just posting quotes from Jones with no comments of their own.

Like it or not, news sources will publish the comments of a former national coach. The fact that his opinions might be stupid isn't really relevant.

 

[RugbyReg]

Back to the Wallaby squad, I think most positions are picking themselves.

I do have big question marks over the back three however and I keep coming back to the solution being moving Izzy to wing and Beale playing at 15.

I think it's the positions where both have played their best for the Wallabies, and helps solved our wing issue without 'weakening a strength'.

Cheika prefers to pick on Super Rugby positions however, perhaps justifiably, so I can't see it happening.

Tomane and Speight feight it out for the other spot.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah we do this every year, around this time. All of our rent-a-quotes chip in their opinions on how to fix the Wallabies for the coming season.

We've had Alan Jones, so Bob Dwyer is due in about a weeks' time. Then Campo will have his 2c, which only leaves Eddie Jones and maybe Mark Ella to finish the whole thing off.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm looking forward to Campo suggesting that our backline needs more wingers and particularly more wingers with X-factor.

He'll probably cite the fantastic Auckland Blues backline as evidence and suggest that John Kirwan just got unlucky with injuries in his forward pack.

 

[Viking]

Back to the Wallaby squad, I think most positions are picking themselves.

I do have big question marks over the back three however and I keep coming back to the solution being moving Izzy to wing and Beale playing at 15.

I think it's the positions where both have played their best for the Wallabies, and helps solved our wing issue without 'weakening a strength'.

Cheika prefers to pick on Super Rugby positions however, perhaps justifiably, so I can't see it happening.

Tomane and Speight feight it out for the other spot.

Beale is weak under the high ball. I think people easily forget how frequently the opposition used the high ball against us and how effective it was prior to Folau moving to fullback.

Keep Folau at fullback. We have plenty of wing options in Horne, Tomane, Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor), Speight, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - and I honestly don't mind who is going to get picked out of those guys.

Like I mentioned before I actually think the backrow is going to be the place with most experimentation with Hooper/Pocock and Fardy/McCalman/Palu all offering something different and all being close on form and experience.

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

I do have big question marks over the back three however and I keep coming back to the solution being moving Izzy to wing and Beale playing at 15.

What about 11. Tomane 14. Beale 15. Folau? Izzy dropping back to field the bombs and interchanging with Beale on attack and set plays.

 

[Braveheart81]

Beale is weak under the high ball. I think people easily forget how frequently the opposition used the high ball against us and how effective it was prior to Folau moving to fullback.

He's also much better under the high ball than he used to be.

 

[Viking]

What about 11. Tomane 14. Beale 15. Folau? Izzy dropping back to field the bombs and interchanging with Beale on attack and set plays.

I actually think wing would be Beale's best position given his skillset and his weaknesses BUT he has zero experience there and therefore can't possibly be a viable option given the amount of experienced candidates available.

What's wrong with:
11. Tomane
14. JOC (James O'Connor)/Mitchell
15. Folau

He's also much better under the high ball than he used to be.

But why force Beale into the squad? His form isn't any better then JOC (James O'Connor)'s and his skill set isn't any better either. Other wingers are in better form.

 

[Braveheart81]

But why force Beale into the squad? His form isn't any better then JOC (James O'Connor)'s and his skill set isn't any better either. Other wingers are in better form.

I think he'll be in the squad. At this point I'd say he's more likely than JOC (James O'Connor) but the reality is that both will probably be there.

 

[Viking]

I think he'll be in the squad. At this point I'd say he's more likely than JOC (James O'Connor) but the reality is that both will probably be there.

Yes part of the overall squad. But would Beale really be an option for wing? I don't think so. Bench cover maybe, but certainly not a starter.

Why would be he a better choice for wing over JOC (James O'Connor), Micthell, Horne, Tomane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)?

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes part of the overall squad. But would Beale really be an option for wing? I don't think so. Bench cover maybe, but certainly not a starter.

Why would be he a better choice for wing over JOC (James O'Connor), Micthell, Horne, Tomane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)?

I don't think Beale will be picked on the wing. I still see him as being the second choice fullback and first or second choice option as a bench back, particularly if we were looking at a 6:2 split.

 

[Micheal]

But why force Beale into the squad? His form isn't any better then JOC (James O'Connor)'s and his skill set isn't any better either. Other wingers are in better form.

The Beale hate never ceases to confuse me. The pettiness of it also never ceases to amaze me.

People talk as if he's constantly having terrible games for the Tahs. He's not. He is absolutely hopeless in defence, I'll give you that, but the rest of his game is very good. Erratic, but very good. I'd also say that in attack he has less bad games than good, and his bad games often coincide with when the rest of the team is going poorly as well.

He is instrumental to the way the Tahs play the game, he creates countless opportunities, and does a lot of work on and off the ball.

Thats certainly a lot more than JOC (James O'Connor) has done this season, at least in response to Braveheart above.

I don't believe that he will be, or should be, in the starting XV, but to infer that he is not in the top ~35 players in Australia is silly and ignores the way he is currently playing, but more importantly, the way he has performed in the past.

In regard to him playing wing - he has never had experience there. But I also think we get caught up too much with stereotypical positions, and that we should instead focus upon roles in the team.

Beale plays with a 12 on his back at the Tahs. He is not their inside centre however, at least in the typical way inside centres play. He just happens to wear that jersey.

If he were to do something similar at 14, I'd be fine with that. In attack, he could rove similar to the way Digby Ioane did, whilst also providing another playmaker in attack. He would justify playing someone like Horne or Speight on the other wing, and would provide a boot at the back, alongside a great counterattacking weapon. He links incredibly well with Izzy and Foley and we could use that.

That being said, I'd be more inclined to use him off the bench as I don't think he has done enough to pip anyone at 10/12/14/15. I believe he is our second best fullback option, and that if we play him there or at wing we reduce the problems with kicking at the back, but that can be resolved in other ways (e.g. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) / JOC (James O'Connor) on one wing).

To sum up, he's a good player. He may or may not be there. Don't let your dislike for the guys off field antics mar your view of him as a player.