Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[No4918]

I'm thinking only one of JOC (James O'Connor) & Beale will go. Both cover 10 & 15, though god help us if it comes to one of them playing 10. Then do you want a 12 or wing cover and it seems wing is the weakest as far as options with in form players go. JOC (James O'Connor) at his best is also better goal kicker and his defence is better, even on a bad day it is no worse than Beale's best. He has also played 15 more recently.

I am not really fussed on either and I wouldn't expect either in the 23 at this stage. But as far as utility value, JOC (James O'Connor) is the way to go.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

If we use the Tahs as a scrummaging model for the Wobs (which has a certain logic to it), Cheika/Mario Ledesma's continual focus has been on scrummaging square, working hard as an 8 and not giving away penalties. So less bullshit games, more work.

I don't see Alexander being 1st or 2nd choice under those criteria, but as the 3rd THP in squad, maybe,we ain't got much better

Kepu & Holmes seem logical
Alexander or Weekes for that 3rd spot
Faulkner, Ryan, Ah-Nau would be below them

Yep,
that is Cam Blades' ethos too, 16 feet and drive straight and as one

 

[Viking]

I'm thinking only one of JOC (James O'Connor) & Beale will go. Both cover 10 & 15, though god help us if it comes to one of them playing 10. Then do you want a 12 or wing cover and it seems wing is the weakest as far as options with in form players go. JOC (James O'Connor) at his best is also better goal kicker and his defence is better, even on a bad day it is no worse than Beale's best. He has also played 15 more recently.

I am not really fussed on either and I wouldn't expect either in the 23 at this stage. But as far as utility value, JOC (James O'Connor) is the way to go.

Mate, we are good for wingers:
Horne in the form of his career.
Tomane is playing really well this year - especially in defence and the high ball something which he was criticized with in the past.
Mitchell - Apparently in very good form in France. His Grand Final performance was certainly world-class.

Cummins and JOC (James O'Connor) are the only ones who are below average and Speight has been consistently the best winger the last 3 years although having a quiet year this year, his last game was great.

Not sure why you think JOC (James O'Connor) "at his best" is any better then Cooper, Lilo or Foley "at their best". Both have had really good games at kicking for the wallabies, none have been consistent. Honestly they are all the same IMO - so you need to pick the one who is currently in form.

None of this works in JOC (James O'Connor)'s favour. I think he make the team for this utility value and international experience.

And If it is a choice between Beale or JOC (James O'Connor), then I would take JOC (James O'Connor) 99 times out of 100. Agree about defence, Beale has his moments on attack but is rubbish at the moment.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'm thinking only one of JOC (James O'Connor) & Beale will go.

I think only one should. But both probably will.

Personally I would have JOC (James O'Connor). Only by his ability to cover 10, 11, 12 and 15 and be a better defender at 12 than Beale. If it wasn't for that Beale would be in front in my view.

 

[ACT Crusader]

JOC (James O'Connor) will probably get in because of his ability as an outside back utility, who can also do fly half off the bench if injuries go the wrong way for us

I thought the idea of JOC (James O'Connor) playing/covering 10 was lambasted from pillar to post.

In such a critical position don't you actually want your back up option to have played there. If there are injuries you bring in another player that plays there.

 

[Viking]

I thought the idea of JOC (James O'Connor) playing/covering 10 was lambasted from pillar to post.

In such a critical position don't you actually want your back up option to have played there. If there are injuries you bring in another player that plays there.

This. It would take injuries to Cooper, Foley, To'omua, Lilo, Gits before you'd even consider JOC (James O'Connor). And if that injury crisis happened you'd probably even think about putting in that Rebels bloke.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The point is probably more so that you can't fly a bloke in if there's an injury 10 minutes into a game.

 

[Viking]

The point is probably more so that you can't fly a bloke in if there's an injury 10 minutes into a game.

But you'd expect out of Cooper, Foley, To'omua, Lilo and Gits that definitely 3 out of those 5 will be in the squad, most likely 4, and maybe even all of them. So why the need for another cover?

 

[Train Without a Station]

In the 23 though?

If you have a 6/2 bench for example, that's potentially where you'd want JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench. Gives you a player covering the inside and outside backs. All going well you sub him on the wing.

Shit hits the fan, if you need to shift To'omua to 10 you can bring him on at 12. Or keep To'omua at 12 and bring up on at 10.

There's actually a chance you'd only have 2 of them. Though personally Foley would be my bench sub as he covers 10 and 15.

 

[Viking]

In the 23 though?

If you have a 6/2 bench for example, that's potentially where you'd want JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench. Gives you a player covering the inside and outside backs. All going well you sub him on the wing.

Shit hits the fan, if you need to shift To'omua to 10 you can bring him on at 12. Or keep To'omua at 12 and bring up on at 10.

There's actually a chance you'd only have 2 of them. Though personally Foley would be my bench sub as he covers 10 and 15.

Agreed. I read your first post as "10 minutes before a game".

With To'omua the likely starter at 12, I think that relieves a little pressure for the bench cover. JOC (James O'Connor) probably the perfect fit.

 

[hammertimethere]

Correct, with To'omua in the side at 12, it's almost more important to look for 12 and 15 cover on the bench than 10 cover

 

[ACT Crusader]

Exactly. JOC (James O'Connor) should not even be in the 10 conversation. Those days of him possibly becoming a 10 are gone.

He really is an outside back that can cover midfield should there be injuries. People would say that 12 is/was his best position, but I don't think that is the case. It seems he would be well down the pecking order of OZ midfield options now. In my view he is a wing/fullback because his best work is done when there is space.

 

[Braveheart81]

Exactly. JOC (James O'Connor) should not even be in the 10 conversation. Those days of him possibly becoming a 10 are gone.

He really is an outside back that can cover midfield should there be injuries. People would say that 12 is/was his best position, but I don't think that is the case. It seems he would be well down the pecking order of OZ midfield options now. In my view he is a wing/fullback because his best work is done when there is space.

I don't think anyone is suggesting anything more than him being the third choice 10 in a matchday 23 and the fourth or fifth choice in a 31 man squad.

 

[Pedrolicus]

Exactly. JOC (James O'Connor) should not even be in the 10 conversation. Those days of him possibly becoming a 10 are gone.

He really is an outside back that can cover midfield should there be injuries. People would say that 12 is/was his best position, but I don't think that is the case. It seems he would be well down the pecking order of OZ midfield options now. In my view he is a wing/fullback because his best work is done when there is space.

Agreed, when you consider that ultimate Frisbee was preferred at fly half for the Reds you have to think that he's not going to get near the test 10 jersey.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Agreed, when you consider that ultimate Frisbee was preferred at fly half for the Reds you have to think that he's not going to get near the test 10 jersey.

When you say that you don't consider all considerations that the Reds coaches had to make at the time.

Moving JOC (James O'Connor) to 10 meant weakening 2 positions. 10 and the position you moved JOC (James O'Connor) from. Playing Frisby only weakened 1.

Furthermore, the pool of outside backs is greater at Wallaby level then it is at QLD level.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Thanks god the squad seems to be materialising and most focus seems to be on wingers. Unlucky players will probably include Haylett-Petty who has the attributes to be a successful test FB, either Jones or Dennis who have both been having solid Super Rugby seasons, and Gill or Hodgo who are both incredible players in their own right, but seem to be overlooked for the more dynamic wide running Hooper or the beast over the ball Pocock. Personally I think Gill has a better rounded skill set than the both of them, but doesn't hit the peaks of either in their specialty.

For me, one important player to be in the mix is Drew Mitchell - a booming boot is something we've missed for a while and come RWC time, that's the sort of thing that can keep us in the tournament when things get tough.

Bring on the test season!

 

[Pedrolicus]

When you say that you don't consider all considerations that the Reds coaches had to make at the time.

Moving JOC (James O'Connor) to 10 meant weakening 2 positions. 10 and the position you moved JOC (James O'Connor) from. Playing Frisby only weakened 1.

Furthermore, the pool of outside backs is greater at Wallaby level then it is at QLD level.

Is this a serious response?

Are you implying that if Foley or Lealiifano were playing fullback at the Reds and Quade got injured they would put Frisby into fly half of there were only young wingers available?

The fact that you used the term "Reds coaches" makes me feel that this whole post was tongue in cheek.

I also don't understand the relevance of the wallabies having better depth in the outside backs.

 

[Train Without a Station]

You've completely missed the point.

JOC (James O'Connor) is a first choice outside back. You weaken one of those positions by moving him. 10 is already weakened by your first choice player being injured. So regardless, you are weaker at 10.

If you have a great player to slot in at fullback or the wing, it's no loss. If you don't you weaken to positions significantly.

Your hypothetical makes no sense, as you are talking about 2 players who both play 10 as a first choice (though one normally plays 12) being fullbacks. They are not.

 

[Pedrolicus]

My point was that he is not a consideration at ten if a back up scrum half is favourable to him.

Fly half is the most crucial back line position, you ALWAYS put your best option there. Even if that means having a weaker winger.

 

[No4918]

My point was that he is not a consideration at ten if a back up scrum half is favourable to him.

Fly half is the most crucial back line position, you ALWAYS put your best option there. Even if that means having a weaker winger.

He was a backup, he was the first choice backup until he apparently said he was more comfortable in the outside backs about an hour before kickoff one night. Whether that is the whole truth or the right decision was discussed at the time.

And your comparisons of Lilo and Foley are not like for like. They are 10's who can play fullback, can anyone remember the last time they actually did though? JOC (James O'Connor) is a wing/fullback who can fill in at 10. Apples and oranges.