Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Dumbledore]

@ Dumbledore - I wouldn't be taking Beale if I consider him the 3rd best inside centre, 3rd best fullback and 4th best flyhalf.

Again I'm not saying I wouldn't select him. He is very experience and clearly has a knack for pulling a rabbit out of the hat when you need one, but at the moment im struggling with the idea that he will be selected as our no.2 inside centre ahead of lilo, when I think we need to consider what we want from our inside centre at the world cup.

Whilst Australia will be all out attack at the WC, we must remember that WCs are won on staunch defence.

Then again, im not Beale's biggest fan, so maybe I'm wrong to feel this way. am i?

I'd say he's probably about even with Lilo at inside centre, 2nd best fullback but agree about 4th best flyhalf.

I wouldn't be picking him as a starter. I'd be picking him as a bench player who can pinch hit in a number of different roles when required. Like a rugby version of Glenn Maxwell. Imagine him coming on with 10-15 minutes to go and running around with Speight, Folau, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor) and Kuridrani. As a defender you'd be bricking it.

I hear what you're saying about defence. It's something I've talked about with Brumbieman a crateload of times over the years. I think as a team you have to play to your strengths, not to minimise your weaknesses. Pick players to win you games, don't pick them to not lose.

At the moment we look like we're shaping up to have a rangey, hard-working, pack with Hooper being the only real ball-carrier of note. However our backline is suddenly packed with guys who can bend and break the defensive line. I think we should pick players to fit that mould. If we wanted to pick guys to match it with Roberts then it'd probably just be Inman, which would be a ridiculous selection for a lot of reasons.

These last few weeks have been the best I've seen from Beale in a long time - and it's put him ahead of Lilo and Foley for me. If he slips back and starts playing junk rugby just aimlessly drifting across the backline then I'll rethink things.

 

[BDA]

Not really in this case. To'omua to 10 and Lealiifano to 12 is how they've been playing all year long and I don't see Larkham having any qualms about playing that combination in a test match.

I have no doubts that Beale will be in the squad, though imo he won't deserve to be there if his one on one defense doesn't really smarten up.

At this stage I cannot see any justification for people wanting Genia as the starting No 9 or for wanting JOC (James O'Connor) in the squad at all. Will is clearly third best No 9 at present behind Phipps and White, not necessarily in that order. White has been in top form but Phipps is yet to show the form he had last year.

JOC (James O'Connor) is in no form, and I just cannot accept that anybody (including Giteau) should be considered for selection based on NH form. A lot of average to good Super players who won't or cant make the Wallabies are killing them over in France and GB. There is a distinct difference in quality of the rugby in the two hemispheres.

I am waiting to see with bated breath how the relationship between Cheika and Bernie plays out. My suspicion is that they will have their disagreements about selections, particularly at 9, 10, 12. Larkham has continually shown his preference for To'omua at 10, and he has stated he considers Nic White to be one of the two top half backs in the world, and his present form doesn't argue against that assessment. Cheika clearly likes what he gets from Beale as the reserve at 12 but I wouldn't be surprised if Larkham has different ideas about that. Not sure if it is a relationship that will have any longevity attached to it.

To say JOC (James O'Connor) is in no form is extremely harsh. He's only played 2 games since returning from the NH and he's playing in a poorly performing team with a pack that's going backwards. He's also been forced to "fill in at Flyhalf and then Fullback. I actually thought he had some good moments against he Highlanders. He had probably the best line-break of the game. he didn't do much against the tahs, but that's a bit tough to shoulder the reds poor performance on JOC (James O'Connor).

Lets reserve the judgment on JOC (James O'Connor) until he's playing at wing, outside Quade Cooper.

Re Genia, I agree i wouldn't have him as a starter atm, but i actually think his form has been pretty good this season. He was excellent against the Highlanders. He's returned to the running game that made him a hit in 2011. Unfortunately he's been playing behind a poorly performing pack, and a make shift backline. he's had 4 different Flyhalves play outside of him over the last 5 weeks, mostly inexperienced. Again i think we should reserve our judgment on him until later in the season.

It's all well and good to start calling Nick White a world class halfback, but the fact is he's next stood out at test level....ever.

 

[BDA]

With regards to JOC (James O'Connor) ahead of Beale as a fullback. Can't say I've ever seen JOC (James O'Connor) play fullback other than last night. Beale was nominated int player of the year in that pos. Why would JOC (James O'Connor) be ahead of him?

Really? He's played fullback for the wallabies on a number of occasions. again my selection of JOC (James O'Connor) over Beale at 15 is really that i think JOC (James O'Connor) is more solid on defence, but offers about the same in terms of attacking skills. JOC (James O'Connor) will also spend most of the season playing wing and fullback.

 

[TOCC]

Can't say I've ever seen JOC (James O'Connor) play fullback other than last night.

JOC (James O'Connor) has played fullback in a Bledisloe Cup match, surely you watch all the Bledisloes???

 

[Marcelo]

Going to have another stab.

Not going to explain each selection first up, but when I inevitably get called out on a few choices I'd be more than happy to explain my logic.

Some selections are ambitious/unlikely. I get that.

Some selections based on form, others based on other factors.

1. Slipper.
2. Moore.
3. Kepu.
4. Arnold. I know it's early. But by god I'm calling it. This guy can play. Everything everyone on Gagger has been wanting for ages - hard worker, but he's actually effective in every facet of the game. If he can show a tad more mongrel then all the better.
5. Wish I could say Douglas. Going to go with Skelton even though I'd probably rather him off the bench.
6. Higgenbotham.
7. Pocock.
8. Palu.
9. Genia.
10. To'omua.
11. Speight.
12. O'Connor.
13. Kuridrani.
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
15. Folau. I'd love to say Hunt and move Folau to right wing, but there isn't enough evidence to support that opinion yet even though I think, in the end, it'd be the best option.

16. TPN.
17. Robinson.
18. Sio (Love to see him play more at THP. Great player, could take Kepu's spot if they let him. Alexander has traditionally played better at LHP too. Brumbies should consider a switch.).
19. Like I said, love to say Skelton. I have never been a fan of Carter, Simmons or Horwill (I know shoot me), but it's obviously going to be one of the three (2 of them will be in the squad no doubt, the coaching staff aren't ambitious enough to pick Arnold). In all honesty in this instance I'd love to carry Fardy as our back up second rower, not because he's a perfect second row but because he is versatile enough to be a real super sub + won't do a bad job in the 2nd row late in the game.
20. Fardy (or, if he's carried as per the above, Hooper maybe).
21. Possibly Phipps. I wish Giteau were still around - he could do a decent job at halfback, 5/8 and inside. A super sub.
22. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (if Folau to wing) but more likely Horne.
23. Beale.

Let me know your thoughts. I have a feeling this will be controversial.

JOC (James O'Connor) at 12??

 

[Jagman]

JOC (James O'Connor) has played fullback in a Bledisloe Cup match, surely you watch all the Bledisloes???

I haven't missed one for a while. Dodgy memory I guess. Did he play as a starter or off the bench?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Braveheart81]

Can I ask you this BH - who would you prefer to see start at 12 against England. Lilo or Beale?

It would be Leali'ifano right now but in a RWC squad this is where the issue lies. To'omua would be the first choice 12 and Beale would probably be in the 23. That is why I think there is a strong chance that Leali'ifano misses out altogether.

Anyway, there's a long way to go until we get there.

 

[wamberal]

I am still baffled about the basic rationale of this thread. Surely we should be talking about the composition of the full squad.


What is the point of endless debates about whether player A or player B would be in a match day 23, I would reckon Lilo, Beale, and JOC (James O'Connor) will all be in the full squad.

Form leading up to, and in the early stages of, the tournament will sort the details out.


Plus, of course, there will always be injuries.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Lets reserve the judgment on JOC (James O'Connor) until he's playing at wing, outside Quade Cooper.

Re Genia, I agree i wouldn't have him as a starter atm, but i actually think his form has been pretty good this season. He was excellent against the Highlanders. He's returned to the running game that made him a hit in 2011. Unfortunately he's been playing behind a poorly performing pack, and a make shift backline. he's had 4 different Flyhalves play outside of him over the last 5 weeks, mostly inexperienced. Again i think we should reserve our judgment on him until later in the season.

It's all well and good to start calling Nick White a world class halfback, but the fact is he's next stood out at test level..ever.

I believe that is precisely what I'm doing. On present form, despite the mitigating circumstances attached to the Reds atm, neither would be selected in a Wallabies side today. So, I'm reserving my judgement by not selecting them until they demonstrate the form that would justify their inclusion.

Nic has played some very good test match rugby. He is criticised for his box kicks and failing to find touch with penalty kicks. He is consistently no better or no worse than any other Aus No 9 with the box kick (Will has in fact conceded tries on a couple of occasions with his box kicks being charged down), and he is currently the best (longest) line kicker in any Aus Super team. His all round play, vision and defense are top class, and on top of that kicks long range penalty goals. Definitely No 1 half back in Australia atm.

 

[Bairdy]

Wallabies optimum 23 players for the RWC:
Slipper, Kepu, Moore, TPN, Simmons, Fardy, Hooper, Pocock, Palu, McCalman, Higginbotham, Phipps, White, Genia, Foley, Cooper, To'omua, Kuridrani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Folau.

Missing 3 players because I would filling the spots with contentious players. Doesn't mean they would all be in the starting 23, just that we need them in the squad.

It is concerning that we haven't decided upon a backup loosehead and tighthead prop, Simmons' locking partners (though I expect Horwill and one of Skelton/Carter will be picked by Cheika), and our wingers.

 

[BDA]

I believe that is precisely what I'm doing. On present form, despite the mitigating circumstances attached to the Reds atm, neither would be selected in a Wallabies side today. So, I'm reserving my judgement by not selecting them until they demonstrate the form that would justify their inclusion.

But you don't select a national team / squad based on form alone. Test match experience and past performances must also be considered. JOC (James O'Connor) has proven he is class at test level. It would be madness not to have him in the squad

 

[Slim 293]

But you don't select a national team / squad based on form alone. Test match experience and past performances must also be considered.

Otherwise known as the Nonu exception...........

 

[BDA]

Ok so this is what I'm proposing for the England / Wales:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simo
5. Carter
6. Fardy
7. Pocock/Hooper
8. Palu
9. Phipps
10. Cooper
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. JOC (James O'Connor)
15. Folau

16. TPN
17. Sio
18. Alexander (?)
19. Skelton
20. McCalman
21. Hooper/Pocock
22. Genia
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)


- The hardest choice is Hooper or Pocock to start. I'll reserve my judgment until later in the season. Whoever comes off the bench will replace the other in a straight swap. No dual 7 for me, unless of course we were defending a comfortable lead. Giving up too much size will hurt us against these teams. Also if Skelton comes off the bench you need to a line-out jumper at 6.
-The bench is stacked with ball running forwards to make an impact in the second half (Sio, TPN, Hooper, Skelton).
-AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can comfortably covers the outside backs. Horne covers 12 and 13. To'omua covers 10. JOC (James O'Connor) provides extra cover for all positions. If worst comes to worst, Hooper can play in the centres.

 

[Slim 293]

22. Genia

At this stage he should consider himself lucky to make the squad...........

 

[BDA]

Why? I think his form's has been good in the early rounds, considering the circumstances.

Genia provides better impact off the bench than White. If it's a wet track, maybe White.

 

[Braveheart81]

The one thing Genia really needs to do is start passing in front of the man.

His backline will continue to get stuck behind the advantage line if the 10 is standing so deep and Genia doesn't force them to run onto the ball.

So often this season, the Reds 10 starts very deep and is still stationary when they receive the pass.

 

[BDA]

come on Braveheart. It's pretty hard to blame Genia for how deep his 10 is standing. I guarantee you when Cooper returns he wont be standing deep.

 

[Braveheart81]

come on Braveheart. It's pretty hard to blame Genia for how deep his 10 is standing. I guarantee you when Cooper returns he wont be standing deep.

Genia should be forcing them to run onto the ball though and that would get the whole backline moving forward.

Regardless of where the 10 is standing, they shouldn't be stationary when they receive it.

 

[BDA]

That may be true, but it's a chicken and egg situation. the 5/8 needs to be moving forward otherwise the pass in front of him will miss him altogether. As I said, when Cooper returns in a few rounds, I guarantee you you'll see Cooper running forward and taking the ball close to the line and Genia's service will compliment that.

Perhaps Genia could take a leaf out of your book in terms of looking for ways to improve the situation, but again it's pretty tough to blame genia for the state of the reds backline. Phipps and White currently have two of the most experienced 10s in the country playing outside them (and behind more dominant packs).

 

[Slim 293]

I don't think you can label Genia's form as being particularly "good" ............

Currently he's sitting a distant third behind White (the form SH) and Phipps (the incumbent).

He will make the RWC, but needs to elevate himself from being "that third halfback we need to have".