Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[emuarse]

Its still a long way off, and players will change with retirement/injury/improvement etc, but this thread will allow considered opinion over time of the optimum 23 players to give us the best chance in the RWC.
So for starters, here is my early selection, remembering we are 2 years away:

Slipper
Moore
Kepu
Skelton
Simmons
McMenniman
Pocock
Higginsbotham
Ginea
Cooper
Spleigh
To'omua
Feauai-Sautia
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

Bench
Tatafu Polota Nau
Robinson
Ryan
Horwell
Hooper
Beale
Godwin
Cummins

 

[Viking]

Its still a long way off, and players will change with retirement/injury/improvement etc, but this thread will allow considered opinion over time of the optimum 23 players to give us the best chance in the RWC.
So for starters, here is my early selection, remembering we are 2 years away:

Slipper
Moore
Kepu Palmer
Skelton
Simmons
McMenniman Fardy
Pocock
Higginsbotham
Ginea
Cooper
Speight
To'omua
Feauai-Sautia AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Kuridriani
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

Bench
Tatafu Polota Nau
Robinson
Ryan
Horwell
Hooper
Beale
Godwin
Cummins

Digby might be back come 2015 as well.

 

[Braveheart81]

I doubt there will be a huge amount of changes from players who are current Wallabies. 2015 is not a long way away and I doubt many players who currently aren't getting game time for the Wallabies (aside from those who are injured) will get much of a look in.

I wonder if we will have 30 man squads again or whether they will be increased by one or two given that we now have 23 man teams with four props?

I think we'll see something like (I've picked 31 players with an extra prop):

Moore, Polota-Nau, Fainga'a
Robinson, Slipper, Kepu, and two out of Alexander/Ryan/Sio
Horwill, Simmons, Fardy, Douglas/Carter/Pyle/Skelton
Pocock, Hooper, Mowen, Higginbotham, Palu, McCalman/Gill/Dennis
Genia, White, Phipps
Cooper, To'omua
Leali'ifano, Kuridrani, Ashley-Cooper,
Cummins, Speight, Tomane
Folau, Beale

JOC (James O'Connor) and Ioane would clearly be in the mix if they return to Australia. Godwin, Foley, CFS, Horne, Crawford could all be there or thereabouts if they play well in the next two years.

I think a matchday 23 would with everyone available look very close to:

Slipper
Moore
Kepu
Horwill
Simmons
Higginbotham
Pocock
Palu
Genia
Cooper
Cummins
To'omua
Ashley-Cooper
Speight
Folau

Robinson, Ryan/Alexander, Polota-Nau, Fardy, Hooper, White, Beale, Kuridrani.

 

[tigerland12]

Bang on Braveheart.

Strong bench as well when you can bring on Polota-Nau, Fardy, Hooper, Beale and Kuridrani.

I genuinely think Kuridrani will be out starting 13 at the WC, but could go either way with Speight coming into contention.

Fardy could well be there at starting lock as well.

 

[Braveheart81]

I genuinely think Kuridrani will be out starting 13 at the WC, but could go either way with Speight coming into contention.

Fardy could well be there at starting lock as well.

I agree with both these things. I just think that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is very likely just about the first back picked and unless something dramatic happens over the next year or so, he'll be in our starting side come the 2015 RWC.

Whether that is on the wing or at 13 will depend on how compelling the arguments are for players like Speight, Cummins and Kuridrani at the time.

Fardy could make it very hard not to pick him if he keeps up his standard of play in 2014 even if everyone else is fit. With Simmons playing much better and being crucial for our lineout, Horwill could find himself squeezed to the bench if Fardy moves to lock.

 

[Bowside]

In late 2009 I remember being asked who I thought would make the 2011 wallaby world cup squad. Amongst others I mentioned Giteau, Smith and that I liked the look of this kid named To'omua that had gone done to the brumbies from state high.

Moral of the story is things change quickly in Australian rugby, and predictions are hard to make accurately.

What I will say is that I can't see us winning the world cup with Kepu, Alexander, Timani and Simmons in the tight 5. Any good young forward in an Australian super rugby squad has a chance to be a wallaby over the next couple of seasons because our pack is very shit at the moment.

I would bank on a few of the current pack never playing another test after this tour. Likewise a few blokes who have hardly played super rugby will be wallaby starters come 2015.

 

[tigerland12]

Predicted squad bolters anyone?

Kyle Godwin, Curtis Browning

 

[Zander]

I'll name the 23 that loses to England in the final (after winning the pool match).

1. James Slipper
2. Stephen Moore
3. Sekope Kepu
4. Will Skelton
5. Rob Simmons
6. Scott Higginbotham (c)
7. Michael Hooper
8. Jake Schatz
9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Henry Speight
12. Matt To'omua
13. Israel Folau
14. James O'Connor
15. Kurtley Beale

16. Damien Fitzpatrick
17. Scott Sio
18. Paddy Ryan
19. Kane Douglas
20. Liam Gill
21. Nic White
22. Tevita Kuridrani
23. Adam Ashley-Cooper

In 2011 there were actually quite a few players who had yet to debut in 2009. Horne, Fainga'a (2x), McCabe, McCalman, Phipps, Higginbotham, Simmons, Slipper, Ma'afu.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'll name the 23 that loses to England in the final (after winning the pool match).

16. Damien Fitzpatrick

Will there be a state funeral for the victims of the plane crash on the way to the ARU's inaugural hookers convention?*

* Stephen Moore was obviously injured at the time and wasn't on the plane.

 

[dangerousdave]

I think a good approach is to attempt to predict the 'best three players in each position'. Then whittle down the squad with a slight preference for players who can play multiple positions. The players in each position are in descending order. I have put ages in braces where I think that is an issue, for instance. It would be nice for Benn Robinson to return to previous form but he's 29 now and so will be 31 by RWC2015... maybe we would be better looking at a younger prop.

1. Sio (22), Robinson (29), Slipper (24)
2. Moore (30), TPN (28), Hansen/Anae
3. Kepu (27), Ryan (25), Alexander (29)
4. Horwill (28), Skelton (21), Douglas (24)
5. Simmons (24), Pyle (25), Carter?
6. Fardy (29), Mowen (28), McCalman (25), Dennis
7. Pocock, Hooper, Gill
8. Higginbotham (27), Mowen (28), Schatz (23)
9. Genia, White, Phipps?
10. Cooper, To'omua, Foley
11. CFS, Cummins, Tomane
12. To'omua, Lealifano, Godwin
13. Kuridrani, Folau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (29)
14. Speight, JOC (James O'Connor), Folau
15. Folau, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor)

I have excluded Palu based on his current age (29) and injury record.

One problem that I immediately saw when doing this was the age of our tight five and particularly the front row, we haven't really had any new kids on the block for a while and the ones that we have do not have much experience yet. We need to start blooding the likes of Sio and Ryan immediately.

I think that leaves with a squad (assuming 31 man squad because of the extra prop):
Forwards:
Sio, Robinson, Slipper, Kepu, Ryan
Moore, TPN, Hansen/Anae
Horwill, Skelton, Simmons, Pyle
Fardy, Mowen, McCalman, Higginbotham
Pocock, Hooper
Backs:
Genia, White, Phipps
Cooper, To'omua, Lealifano, Godwin
Kuridrani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
CFS, Speight, JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau, Beale
Ok, that's actually a 32 man squad but close enough

 

[TOCC]

Fitzpatrick ahead of TPN, Hanson and Fainga'a?

Im still holding out judgement on Skelton, sure he is physically imposing but been a big bloke and using your weight effectively aren't always mutually conducive, 2015 will likely be too soon for Skelton.

Furthermore i would hate to see Izzy play any other position apart from fullback, the bloke is one of the best players in the world at attacking the ball in the air. This has been one of Australia's biggest back-line weaknesses since Latham retired, no doubt he could make a great outside centre as well, but for the sake of the team i think his future will be at fullback.

 

[TOCC]

I think a good approach is to attempt to predict the 'best three players in each position'. Then whittle down the squad with a slight preference for players who can play multiple positions. The players in each position are in descending order. I have put ages in braces where I think that is an issue, for instance. It would be nice for Benn Robinson to return to previous form but he's 29 now and so will be 31 by RWC2015. maybe we would be better looking at a younger prop

31 is barely a seasoned veteran in terms of scrummaging, in no way is that too old, Castrogiavani is 32 and only been getting better, Tony Woodcock is another who is 32.

 

[Braveheart81]

I have put ages in braces where I think that is an issue, for instance. It would be nice for Benn Robinson to return to previous form but he's 29 now and so will be 31 by RWC2015. maybe we would be better looking at a younger prop.

I have excluded Palu based on his current age (29) and injury record.

One problem that I immediately saw when doing this was the age of our tight five and particularly the front row, we haven't really had any new kids on the block for a while and the ones that we have do not have much experience yet. We need to start blooding the likes of Sio and Ryan immediately.

Most of the best props in the world are over 30. There is no reason why Benn Robinson won't be in our 2015 RWC squad and there's a reasonable possibility he could be better in 2015 than he is now. Look at Castrogiovanni, Roncero, Adam Jones and to a lesser extent Woodcock.

I think if Palu's healthy when the RWC comes around he's a very strong chance to be in our squad.

Adam Ashley-Cooper is pretty much a lock for the RWC if he's healthy.

Sio had a fair bit of opportunity this year and wasn't up to it. He needs to show he deserves another crack in 2014 based on excellent Super 15 form, but this year he's shown to be a distant third in the test arena to Slipper and Robinson.

 

[Bowside]

In 2011 there were actually quite a few players who had yet to debut in 2009. Horne, Fainga'a (2x), McCabe, McCalman, Phipps, Higginbotham, Simmons, Slipper, Ma'afu.

Yep, and you could add to that the fact that Cooper and Beale hadn't yet had 'breakout' super rugby seasons.

 

[dangerousdave]

Most of the best props in the world are over 30. There is no reason why Benn Robinson won't be in our 2015 RWC squad and there's a reasonable possibility he could be better in 2015 than he is now. Look at Castrogiovanni, Roncero, Adam Jones and to a lesser extent Woodcock.

Point taken on that one.

I think if Palu's healthy when the RWC comes around he's a very strong chance to be in our squad.

The key word being "IF" and even then you hedge your bets by saying "very strong chance". If we assume that there's a 50% chance of him being healthy and a 50% chance of somebody becoming better than him in the meantime then that means he's a 0.5x0.5=25% chance of being in the squad overall.

Adam Ashley-Cooper is pretty much a lock for the RWC if he's healthy.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will get slower with time and Ewen has already decided that Kuridrani is his preferred 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is less and less likely to play on the wing or at fullback as he gets older. Given our relative riches of outside backs and the need for speed/youth in those positions I see him as being in the 30 man squad but not the match day squad. Think Mils Muliaina at the last world cup.

Sio had a fair bit of opportunity this year and wasn't up to it. He needs to show he deserves another crack in 2014 based on excellent Super 15 form, but this year he's shown to be a distant third in the test arena to Slipper and Robinson.

That's exactly the point. He showed potential at super level but then was found to be lacking in experience at test level. That is why he needs more experience at test level. There is every chance that Slipper or Robinson could get injured or suffer a drop in form and we don't want our backups to be too green.

 

[Tip]

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Slipper
4. Horwill / Simmons
5. Fardy
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. O'Connor
12. To'omua
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Speight
15. Folau

16. TPN
17. Sio
18. Kepu
19. Kimlin
20. Hooper
21. White
22. Leali'ifano
23. Kuridrani

Alexander, Hanson, Pyle, Horwill/Simmons, Mowen, Burgess, CFS, Beale / Godwin round out the squad of 31.


I don't care about the order of the props, as long as the scrum is dominant.

 

[Braveheart81]

The key word being "IF" and even then you hedge your bets by saying "very strong chance". If we assume that there's a 50% chance of him being healthy and a 50% chance of somebody becoming better than him in the meantime then that means he's a 0.5x0.5=25% chance of being in the squad overall.

Let's agree to disagree. If he's healthy I think he'll be in the squad. I can't see Schatz or any other number 8 besides Higginbotham being ahead of him by that point in time.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will get slower with time and Ewen has already decided that Kuridrani is his preferred 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is less and less likely to play on the wing or at fullback as he gets older. Given our relative riches of outside backs and the need for speed/youth in those positions I see him as being in the 30 man squad but not the match day squad. Think Mils Muliaina at the last world cup.

I don't think this is true. Kuridrani came into the 13 position because AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) needed to move to the wing when JOC (James O'Connor) was no longer a proposition. If there was only space for one of them in the side currently, I think it would be AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is consistently one of the Wallabies better players. I see no reason why he can't still be doing that in two years. He is remarkably robust. Think Conrad Smith or Jean de Villiers still being amongst their respective country's best.

 

[Tomikin]

No Love for Jesse Mogg. If he keeps the improving happening he could very well be starting 15 although I think Izzy is a lock there ATM

 

[TOCC]

Can't see Mogg in the 22 if Izzy is fit

 

[Hammeroid]

No Love for Jesse Mogg. If he keeps the improving happening he could very well be starting 15 although I think Izzy is a lock there ATM

I know your a Brumbies fan but can we be serious around this forum. Mogg's Tackling makes Quade cooper look like Brian Lima. Never again