Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Marcelo]

Although, he hasn't been up there at the moment I'd still pick him.. Don't we have someone SA THP with an ozzie Grandma out there somewhere ?

It's what I always said, ARU must send a scout to Georgia and bring the new Zirakashvili. If you recruit a young Georgian prop, he could play for the national team, Georgia has created good props but they don't play the 6N. Then come to Australia, play Super Rugby and The Rugby Championship should be a great encouragement for any Georgian who loves rugby.

 

[Floggn']

Do they need an S&C coach at the World Cup? Don't imagine they would be doing much in the way of weights or fitness.

Genuine question. I've always wondered what the Wallaby S&C guy actually does, other than make sure the Super teams are all singing from the same hymn sheet.
.

Hugh are you being serious?

If you are then you should know the a proper S&C coach will let the head coach know when they have done enough of one sort of training style and have to do another or have a break. He will maintain his program through the squad, he is the guy that should restrict injuries from happening through training as well as on the field. A good S&C bloke are priceless and very underrated member of a very good squad.

Just on Greg Holmes, I think he has been in good form for a couple of seasons and should have had a call up for last years spring tour at least if he wasn't injured in the NRC.

 

[hammertimethere]

Agreed, the World Cup is two months long. Plenty of time for the guys to physically fall in a heap if they aren't managed appropriately. Furthermore, the 11-12 week build up to RWC is plenty of time to make a difference to the squads level of physical preparation (strength, power, speed, fitness, durability depending on the player) and lay the foundation for a tilt at the tournament.

A great S & C coach makes an enormous difference to the ability of a team to play the way they want to by giving them the physical tools to do so, helping keep the best players on the paddock etc.

 

[TOCC]

Do they need an S&C coach at the World Cup? Don't imagine they would be doing much in the way of weights or fitness.

Genuine question. I've always wondered what the Wallaby S&C guy actually does, other than make sure the Super teams are all singing from the same hymn sheet.
.

More then ever S&C coaches are needed through a RWC, the short turnaround, the intensity and the limited preparation period are all critical.. For athletes, conditioning and fitness can drop off after only 5 days, detraining/deconditioning is a real thing. But also managing a players workload in between games, each player is going to vary.


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[qwerty51]

Wales S&C has been recruited by the NFL

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-loss-fitness-guru-adam-8925313

 

[barbarian]

More then ever S&C coaches are needed through a RWC, the short turnaround, the intensity and the limited preparation period are all critical.. For athletes, conditioning and fitness can drop off after only 5 days, detraining/deconditioning is a real thing. But also managing a players workload in between games, each player is going to vary.


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Fair enough, thanks. Enlightening.

 

[baz]

A good S&C coach is highly underrated...
Was told a few years ago there is no excuse for hamstring problems in modern athlete's if the S&C guy knows what he's doing
Game has become about bigger faster stronger for sure but reaction times are hugely important in a game of inches decided in split seconds
I hear smart S&C can improve this

Also regarding RWC team found this interesting

http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2015/rugby/story/260781.html

do we go for X-factor or consistency OR a clever blend of both......

 

[Brumby Runner]

http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2015/rugby/story/260781.html

Notice that Nic White from the Brumbies is on 21.5 points and Nick White from the Brumbies is on 14 points. What does this say?

 

[Wilson]

That it was written by Growden?

 

[baz]

should be on 35.5 maybe......

I guess the thing I was opening up for discussion is what me, my union and league mates refer to as the Folau Factor: incomplete players

and before I get accused of Folau bashing, I believe he has come a VERY long way in a short time playing a position that requires the game knowledge and skills of a 10 along with exceptional speed and bravery.

The Reds took him apart with their kicking game in his 1st start and I worried he would be another Benji or dare I say Karmichael....

I am v pleased to say he is not

He is clearly the best taker of the high ball IN THE WORLD! big statement but from our observations, true.

One of the better counter-attacking, ball runner offloading fullbacks in the world. Other than Beale, who does it differently but is just as effective, probably the best in Australia atm

BUT has poor positional sense on defence. Mainly in regards to a kicking attack

However for me his biggest, and at times quite glaring weakness is his kicking game. His decision making around when, where and how to kick is below S15 standard let alone a RWC final

His execution of the long kick is improving over time but its the decision making and range of kicking options he has in his arsenal that worries me

Possibly Cheika has figured this out too hence the talk of moving him into the centres....

I'm choosing Folau in this blog because everybody that knows rugby can see these things relatively easily. It gets harder the closer you get to the ball. eg Liam Gill Arguably best pilferer in S15 but too small for the combative side of the game AND referees are no long allowing turnovers by constantly giving attacking team huge leeway on the ground

So the question: do we go with complete consistent players or x-factor but ultimately flawed players at RWC where the final games are traditionally a grind of inches and split second decisions where errors often define outcomes....

From our observation even the best attacking team in the world (AB's)can't play running rugby when the opposition doesn't let you

Don't be fooled by Super Fluff rugby (or even arguably now test matches) with its skewed points system and the weekly games players have to get through to get paid

RWC games are once in a lifetime moments for most. As a result defenders will break their shoulder to stop you. Something they won't do at ANY other time

Attacking play is stifled both by committed defence and by what I call "attack anxiety". Attack by definition requires a high level of skill execution. For most athletes execution accuracy is inversely proportional to pressure

i.e. Defence hardens. Attack is nervous

Now chose your team....

 

[Braveheart81]

So the question: do we go with complete consistent players or x-factor but ultimately flawed players at RWC where the final games are traditionally a grind of inches and split second decisions where errors often define outcomes..

Who are these complete, consistent players you're talking about who aren't being selected?

It's all very well to say that Folau isn't a complete player because he doesn't have an excellent kicking game (I'd still argue his positional play in defence is as good as or better than any other fullback we currently have), but he's easily the best overall fullback we have and one of the best players in the team.

I think most of the players in our side aren't the complete package. I also don't think there are players who are not standouts at Super Rugby level who would suddenly be world beaters at test level.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Israel a dud ????

Bring back Moggy

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Israel a dud ????

Bring back Moggy

I watched Moggy in the a club game on Saturday and before he was broken he looked decidely average at club level with at least one kick outside the 22 and out on the full.

 

[Strewthcobber]

What about the reverse Larkham?

QC (Quade Cooper) to FB

 

[Wilson]

If we're moving one of our flyhalves to fullback Foley makes more sense.

 

[BDA]

So the question: do we go with complete consistent players or x-factor but ultimately flawed players at RWC where the final games are traditionally a grind of inches and split second decisions where errors often define outcomes..

Well the only real match up that comes to mind is To'omua v Beale. There you have a true "X-factor -v- flawlessness/completeness" match-up. I don't think there should be any argument that To'omua should be picked as the starting 12 every day of the week, but I'm sure there'll be a lot of people selecting Beale at 12 (hell im pretty sure I recall half of the guys on Rugby HQ selecting Beale at 12).

 

[Scrubber2050]

To'omua for me over Beale a certainty

 

[Viking]

should be on 35.5 maybe..

I guess the thing I was opening up for discussion is what me, my union and league mates refer to as the Folau Factor: incomplete players

and before I get accused of Folau bashing, I believe he has come a VERY long way in a short time playing a position that requires the game knowledge and skills of a 10 along with exceptional speed and bravery.

The Reds took him apart with their kicking game in his 1st start and I worried he would be another Benji or dare I say Karmichael..

I am v pleased to say he is not

He is clearly the best taker of the high ball IN THE WORLD! big statement but from our observations, true.

One of the better counter-attacking, ball runner offloading fullbacks in the world. Other than Beale, who does it differently but is just as effective, probably the best in Australia atm

BUT has poor positional sense on defence. Mainly in regards to a kicking attack

However for me his biggest, and at times quite glaring weakness is his kicking game. His decision making around when, where and how to kick is below S15 standard let alone a RWC final

His execution of the long kick is improving over time but its the decision making and range of kicking options he has in his arsenal that worries me

Possibly Cheika has figured this out too hence the talk of moving him into the centres..

I actually don't rate his offloading skills. For a guy his size and strength I thought he would be a lot better but his accuracy is poor. His passing accuracy in general is pretty poor IMO.

However, you forgot to mention Falou's support play and ability to inject himself into the back-line. He is very very good at tracking the ball and feeding off half-breaks and positioning himself for short inside balls etc. Makes him very dangerous.

 

[baz]

Totally agreed on To'omua over Beale at 12

We need consistency at 12, not X-factor which usually dries up in grinding rugby

How about QC (Quade Cooper) over Foley at 10 tho...

It comes back to whether Cheika and now Bernie (thank the lord) believe we can win the tight games with the consistent non-flashy types like To'omua by playing conservative attritional rugby, making less errors and kicking our goals

OR whether they think we can't beat the top teams like that.
If that's the case we need to go with Cheikas high risk high pace Warratah game and hope the X-factor players perform on the day/days....

and that's the problem. THREE knock out games

I believe Cheika would have gone with X-factor because it was successful at S15 level but think Bernie will bring some realism

He hasn't had the luxury of having virtually the wallaby forward pack playing in a Super comp with mainly wallaby backs to boot

Some big decisions need to be made around game plan before players are even thought about

And yes BraveH you are quite right, there are virtually no complete players. Maybe DC before he was crocked. Ben Smith comes close...
unfortunately they play for the team we have to beat

My question to all is, do we go conservative and therefore pick consistent
OR if we can't win like that do we risk playing faster and looser to allow Xfactor players like QC (Quade Cooper) and Beale do their thing

for the reasons I explained in above post, and I know its BAD for the "product" but I expect knockout games to more closely resemble Jake-ball than Cheika-ball

 

[Braveheart81]

Totally agreed on To'omua over Beale at 12

We need consistency at 12, not X-factor which usually dries up in grinding rugby

How about QC (Quade Cooper) over Foley at 10 tho.

It comes back to whether Cheika and now Bernie (thank the lord) believe we can win the tight games with the consistent non-flashy types like To'omua by playing conservative attritional rugby, making less errors and kicking our goals

OR whether they think we can't beat the top teams like that.
If that's the case we need to go with Cheikas high risk high pace Warratah game and hope the X-factor players perform on the day/days..

and that's the problem. THREE knock out games

I believe Cheika would have gone with X-factor because it was successful at S15 level but think Bernie will bring some realism

He hasn't had the luxury of having virtually the wallaby forward pack playing in a Super comp with mainly wallaby backs to boot

Some big decisions need to be made around game plan before players are even thought about

And yes BraveH you are quite right, there are virtually no complete players. Maybe DC before he was crocked. Ben Smith comes close.
unfortunately they play for the team we have to beat

My question to all is, do we go conservative and therefore pick consistent
OR if we can't win like that do we risk playing faster and looser to allow Xfactor players like QC (Quade Cooper) and Beale do their thing

for the reasons I explained in above post, and I know its BAD for the "product" but I expect knockout games to more closely resemble Jake-ball than Cheika-ball

To'omua is a much better test 12 than Beale because he's a far stronger defender. Cheika selected him there last year and will presumably select him there again this year if he's healthy.

I think we just select our best players. Many of them have x-factor to some degree such as Cooper, Beale, Folau, JOC (James O'Connor), Speight, Hooper who are all likely to be part of the squad at the very least.

I really don't think there are many conservative options that are likely to be good choices purely because they're not the best players we have.

Foley is a slightly more conservative option at 10 than Quade Cooper but realistically this selection will come down to form. Given Cooper's absence through injury and returning to a struggling team, it's going to be difficult for him to win the starting jersey back.