Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[aka_the_think]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/e.../story-e6frf4pu-1227164703146?from=public_rss

Great news, but is Cummins a start in the Wallaby's optimal 23?

 

[Slim 293]

Is his defence at inside really that bad? When was the last time he was given a go there? I don't think he's a bad defender - he's not as good as To'omua I concede, but I think he'd be up to defending at inside without too many issues.

A lot of what you said is right, except for the part about him not being big enough. I really do not accept this argument that you have to be big to play inside, and even if that were true To'omua (and most of Australia's options) certainly aren't up for it. Size is overrated these days, especially at inside. Give O'Connor a go at inside with Kuridrani outside him and To'omua at 5/8 and I'll be happy.

None of the good modern day 12's are lil' guys.............

To say that To'omua isn't "up for it" is ridiculous........... the guy has the go forward and defensive steel required for the position, with the added benefit of playmaking skills and a boot.

Australia's other recent 12 - Lilo, is also not a small guy..........

JOC (James O'Connor) has not shown any form at 12 for a lot of years, and when he played in that position for the Rebels he showed that he was defensively not up to the task.

JOC (James O'Connor)'s only success has been on the wing, and if he's considered for the Wallabies it's the only position suited for him.

At the moment To'omua is a lock for the 12 jersey, with Lilo and Godwin other suitable candidates.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/e.../story-e6frf4pu-1227164703146?from=public_rss

Great news, but is Cummins a start in the Wallaby's optimal 23?

Yes.......yes he is.

 

[USARugger]

Uh, JOC (James O'Connor) not fast enough to play wing?

What?

Seriously?

I just had to stop reading that post right there.

I'm not sure what player you think you're talking about, but it surely isn't JOC (James O'Connor).

And what's with all the talk about him being on the wing like it marries him to the sideline? It's not 1975 anymore. He's also devastating on the blindside, and I think this is where a lot of the misconception about his "playmaking" ability comes from. Between his feet and his natural game sense he's able to make some great off-the-cuff "plays" down the blindside, regularly. But he's awful when it comes to actually managing any kind of structured attack.

**Okay I read more of it and got to the "not much of a finisher" part, so yeah - you're definitely not talking about JOC (James O'Connor)**

You're hardly the first person to suggest JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 but this is surely some of the most absurd logic I've ever seen backing that argument.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The discussion about where JOC (James O'Connor) will play seem to assume that he will be in the starting team. Our backline at present is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), To'omua, Kuridrani, Speight, Folau at 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 respectively, with Lealiifano, Horne and Tomane on the bench. JOC (James O'Connor), along with Khunt and Honey Badger, will have to prove their worth in a full season of Super rugby before they can be considered for the Wallabies.

Of those three, I believe both JOC (James O'Connor) and HB have shown in the past they have the ability to play at the required level, and I sincerely hope Hunt realises everybodies' expectations as we urgently need a backup No 15 to Folau (or replacement if Izzy goes to wing), but none of them are currently with the Wallabies and will have to displace some very good players to get there.

 

[TOCC]

Cummins would have been starting wing if he was in the squad on the EOYT..

JOC (James O'Connor)'s form in France would have earned him test selection, playing wing just isn't about speed, it's about balance, footwork, acceleration, reading the play and strength in contact all of which JOC (James O'Connor) has in abundance.

 

[Braveheart81]

I really don't get the desire to play people like JOC (James O'Connor) somewhere other than on the wing because 'he'll be wasted there'.

That premise might make sense at lower levels because there is no point having your standout player on the wing, but it really doesn't apply at national level.

Really good wingers should score the bulk of your tries and are crucial to a team's success. If we went to the RWC with a group of 11/13/14 players made up of Kuridrani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Cummins, JOC (James O'Connor) and Speight I'd say it was comfortably our best covered positions in the squad in terms of both starting quality and overall depth.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Cummins would have been starting wing if he was in the squad on the EOYT..

JOC (James O'Connor)'s form in France would have earned him test selection, /quote]

No argument with Cummins starting in the EOYT if he'd been available.

But I am not convinced French form is necessarily a good guide when looking at the Wallabies. Let him come back for the Super season and demonstrate that he is up to the required standard, has matured somewhat and is a team player rather than the star in his own mind, and he'll justify his selection if he's better than the alternatives.

 

[Braveheart81]

JOC (James O'Connor) at least was a regular Wallaby and never really in danger of losing his spot in the 23.

It's not like his form was on the decline in Australia and it wasn't until he started playing in France that he looked like he could be in the Wallabies again.

I think JOC (James O'Connor) will comfortably be in our RWC squad if he's healthy.

 

[TOCC]

Yep, JOC (James O'Connor) will be in the squad if he keeps his nose clean, Cummins will be in the squad if he can display the same form he had in the past 18months.

K.Hunt might be in the squad if he can live up to his previous standards NRL/Top14 playing standards.

 

[Braveheart81]

We need some really good players to miss out on the RWC squad if we want to have the strength and depth to compete.

 

[something]

My prediction

Slipper
TPN - doubt Moore will get back to his best in time, please prove me wrong
Kepu
Skelton - i feel he will improve dramatically 2015, sub him at 50
Simmons
Fardy
Hooper - again cant see pocock displacing him in time
Big Dog - Palu will prob be injured, if not Palu
Phipps
Cooper - highest ceiling
Cummins or JOC (James O'Connor)
To'omua
Kurindrani
Folau/Speight - 14 & 15 are dependent on Hunt living up to potential.
Hunt/Folau

Fainga'a or Moore
Sio
Ryan or Alexander? i don't know for this one
Horwill
Higgers
Genia
Beale
Hunt/JOC (James O'Connor)/Horne/Foley/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Bit messy and a lot of what ifs, but the team is starting to come together. No doubt 1 or 2 guys will put there hand up in 2015

 

[upthereds#!]

Going to Have to presume everyone played to their potential for Super Rugby.

1. Slipper
2. Moore (c)
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Horwill ( reds combo has too much exp to deny)

6. Hooper (controversial, lose some mass but still way better at making the advantage line and defending then fardy or mccalman. Can concentrate on loose play as pocock does in tight. Lose a lineout option but Higs is the best backrow lineout option in the country, so still 3 great lineout options.


7. Pocock ( so we can go back to dominating breakdown, so hard to clear out, EARNS us penalties and does this guy ever miss tackles?
8. Higs (best ball running and lineout BR IMO, higher ceiling then Ben M.
9. Genia (way better forward marshalling then phipps
10. Quade (agree with highest ceiling and also better general/marshall)
11. Cummins
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. JOC (James O'Connor) (would go 12 and make room for speight but need To'omua big hits)
15. Folau (hopefully JOC (James O'Connor) can take some tactical pressure off him)

16. TPN 17. Sio 18. Alo-emile19. Skelton 20. Palu (highest potential impact) 21. Phipps 22. Foley 23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) ( clinical and straight A & D)

pains me to leave out speight and hunt...definitely in the 31 though.. Just speight getting a bit caught out in defense in combo with TK and Cummins just has that next level intensity.. such a tough option. Hunt will come good but need AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) versatility/ experience and straight running to finish strong.

24. Charles 25. Robinson 26. Palu 27.Mccalman 28. White 29. Beale 30. Speight 31. Hunt

 

[Marcelo]

JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't have the defensive capabilities required to be a modern day inside centre...

JOC (James O'Connor) cannot defense? Ok

 

[Braveheart81]

JOC (James O'Connor) cannot defense? Ok

He is a strong tackler but not necessarily a good defender at 13. When he played 12 for the Rebels in 2012 (I think) he certainly got found out a few times in defence.

 

[Marcelo]

What makes you say that? I'm interested in hearing more about O'Connor at Wing as I don't currently understand the rationale for it. Whilst he's fast, I am not sure he is fast enough for an internal Winger, and he's also not much of a finisher. He would struggle under the high ball, and whilst I accept that his boot is good, I don't think it justifies his selection over guys like Speight, Folau (assuming he moves to wing), et al.

Also, he offers too much as a playmaker/decision maker to be so far from the action . 5/8 is out of the question, he is terrible there (imo), but I think inside could be a real option.

For mine, he fits into the Tim Horan mould (though obviously not on the same level). I prefer my insides to be fast, agile gamebreaker types (e.g. a young Giteau) and O'Connor is exceptionally agile, has great acceleration and is lightning (for an Inside). When you combined his attacking ability with the consistency/reliability he offers, his good boot (good tactical kicker), strong defence and tactical nous I think you have a good option at #12.

Thoughts?

Well, he played his best game with the gold jersey at 14:

Do u remember?

 

[Slim 293]

JOC (James O'Connor) cannot defense? Ok

Correct, Ralph Wiggum..............

 

[Swat]

JOC (James O'Connor)'s defense at 12 highlighted superbly here:

 

[Brumby Runner]

Going to Have to presume everyone played to their potential for Super Rugby.

1. Slipper
2. Moore (c)
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Hooper
7. Pocock
8. Higs
9. Genia
10. Quade
11. Cummins
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. JOC (James O'Connor)
15. Folau

16. TPN 17. Sio 18. Alo-emile19. Skelton 20. Palu 21. Phipps 22. Foley 23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

pains me to leave out speight and hunt.definitely in the 31 though.. Just speight getting a bit caught out in defense in combo with TK

24. Charles 25. Robinson 26. Palu 27.Mccalman 28. White 29. Beale 30. Speight 31. Hunt

So much to comment on, but main points are :

Horwill will need to have a massive Super season to again command a starting spot. I fear he is beyond it.

Hooper at 6 mystifies me. He is a 7 or nothing. He will be 7 unless Pocock or Gill have exceptional seasons and displace him. Fardy is out and out our No 6.

Will isn't now close to his best form, and trails Phipps and arguably Nic White. Can't see him regaining the starting 9 spot, though at his best it would be a massive plus for the Wallabies.

Henry is the best No 14 in Australia, and has been for the last three years. To say that he was defensively out of position is to ignore the defensive patterns being introduced by Cheika and Grey. Every winger used on the EOYT found himself marking up against an opposition centre with at least one and usually a couple of overlaps outside him. The defensive structure was very dependent on cover defence to keep the outside attackers in check.

If JOC (James O'Connor) makes it back into the team, it should be at 11 where he can have more of a wandering role to take advantage of any defensive weaknesses he might see. Remember also that he was heavily criticised for his defensive work in his last couple of tests playing on the wing for coming inside and letting tries in. He is nowhere near a certainty for selection in my book. He will be competing with at least AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Tomane and Cummins for a spot.

Alo-Emile will not be in the squad as he is not playing in Australia in 2015. (Most unfortunate imo).

Skelton has to dramatically improve his set piece play before he should again be selected. Can't see that happening before the RWC.

I agree with Quade to start at 10, but imo that means Foley is dropped out of the match day 23. He doesn't have the required versatility imo to warrant a spot on the bench.

A few other comments about Nos 24 - 31, Beale and Palu (included twice?) could be made, but these were my main concerns.

 

[Jagman]

Alo-Emile is playing rugby in aus in 2015. He's with the Rebels. It's thereafter that he's signed to Europe so he is eligible for the Wallabies. He passes the required criteria.


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