Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[BDA]

Absolutely agree. Simmons line-out work is greatly overstated. Yes it is important at Test level BUT Fardy, Dennis, Higgers are easily capable of filling in those shoes if Simmons is not selected.

name 3 games when one of those three players were responsible for running a decent line-out at test level.

I honestly believe that Simmons is one of the Wallabies most underrated players of the last 2 years. He's not only a standout line-out jumper, and caller, but he's a strong scrummaging lock and has a good work rate.

I'm yet to see any other aussie locks that have his skill set. Im open to the idea of Fardy at lock but he's supposedly not particularly effective packing down at 4 or 5, which rules him out if that's the case.

 

[southsider]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is fair to very good under the high ball. Speight is ok, Horne is not real good.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does more than just "hack the ball as far as he can". The man can kick to a good standard when required, Horne much less so and Speight I don't really know.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s defense is good to excellent. Horne is probably a more aggressive tackler but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) makes excellent defensive decisions out wide and has shown the ability to make dominant tackles there in tests against the Kiwis and Boks.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is has a far more well rounded skill set than you give him credit for. Your choice of language borders on hyperbole.

Horne's workrate and aggression is great. He has also become a pretty good finisher. Just don't equate that to likely Test match level effectiveness in all parts of the game in which he would be tested at a RWC.

I would have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the 23 above Horne because he's equally versatile, still an excellent defender and finisher but brings a superior kicking game and 100+ tests of nous/experience which in a KO game you just can't buy.

Jeez pretty subjective reply considering what you said in your previous post.

How are "fair" and "very good" next to each other in the scale of rating a player? Think there are a couple of stages in between got to be one or the other.

A good kicker? Please, yes he's better than Horne and speight but a good kicker he is not, especially at test level, think adequate is a better term to use

Very true about his defence although I would say hornes defensive reads are somewhere in the same ballpark plus he is consistently more dominant in a tackle than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

My main problem with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is 1) he doesn't pass and 2) for someone who doesn't pass he is far too predictable and doesn't break tackles often enough. Both Horne and speight run around/through test players on a regular basis, score try's fairly regularly and are not afraid to offload or pass to a supporting player (Horne less so than speight) I just shudder to think of us needing to win our last pool match to advance, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) comes on and ends up ball in hand with 2 mins to go in a 2 v 1 situation, are you 100% sure he is going to do the right thing and draw and pass? How about 75% sure? Cause I honestly don't know how much I'd back him to make the right decision.

For the record my match day wingers/outside backs would be speight, JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne not sure on who I'd have starting though, probably speight and JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[BDA]

The last back spot is really up for grabs and it's a battle between the experienced but low on form players like Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) in my opinion. I completely agree that their form doesn't warrant selection but I can't see neither making the cut. They do provide a point of difference that has proven to win matches in the past. I think most coaches like a player like this on the bench as one of their back reserves. Given their form I can definitely see one of them missing out on the squad though.

I'd say JOC (James O'Connor)'s form has been better than Beale's. JOC (James O'Connor) was pretty much the Reds' stand out back against the Cheetahs and had a very good game against the Rebels two weeks ago. Admittedly he's book ended those games with a few poor performances.

Beale on the other hand hasn't had a stand out game since maybe round 2. He's be one of the weak links in a reasonably successful team.

 

[Getwithme]

This is my slight variation on what has already been said.
I like Arnold, especially if Skelton is there as they are both big heffers for scrum time. (Although it hurts the line out)

3-THPs - Kepu, Holmes, Toby Smith?/Anyone who is not Ben Alexander
2-LHPs - Slipper, Sio
3-Hookers - Moore, Polota-Nau, Hanson
2-Locks - Simmons, Skelton, Coleman/Arnold
1-Lock/6 - Dennis/Jones/Timani
1-6s - Fardy
1 6/7- Gill//Hodgson/McMahon
2-7s - Hooper, Pocock
1-6/eight - McCalaman
2-eight - Palu/Higginbothom
3-Nines - Phipps, Genia, White
2-10s - Foley, Cooper
2-12s - To'omua, Lilo\Giteau
1-13s - Kuridrani,
2-Wings - Speight, Horne/Tomane/Naiyaravoro
1-15s - Folau
3 Versatile Backs- JOC (James O'Connor),AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale?

 

[qwerty51]

Assuming Phipps is the definite #9 and Genia/White are the next 2.. If we only take one of them and they get injured, the other should be in France during the time of the RWC.

 

[Joe Blow]

People who are suggesting that Simmons is not a certainty and that Jones or Dennis or Higgers could do the same job at test level must be joking.
We will need to try and get parity at scrum time and look to have an advantage most of the time in the lineout, otherwise we will be living(and dying) on scraps.
Simmons is probably our best scrumming lock and also our best in the lineout. It's a no brainer, just like having Kepu start at TH if fit.

Who would you prefer to have lining up against the SA lineout in a semi final, Dennis or Simmons?

The lineout is much understated and provides the majority of set piece ball. We know that our scrum will be serviceable at best against the top 4 so it's imperative that we have a lineout that will be superior to just about everyone else.

 

[Joe Blow]

if we are serious about challenging for this thing

 

[Groucho]

At least Fardy performing at line out calling for the Brumbies gives us cover, including during games. Simmons and Fardy should start, meaning either can be subbed.

 

[fatprop]

It's a squad that'd give Lancaster & esp. Gatland pause for thought. Coupla points though: numbers to the left add up to 32, 18 forwards & 14 backs so you'd need to lose a back somewhere. Also from the names (& assuming those in bold are either/ ors), you're short a backup 8 & a proper wing so gotta lose another utility back or convert another midfielder.

EDIT: just seen earlier post #3232 where the numbers add up to 31 & which has a really good balance IMO. Just gotta be a little more ruthless in fitting the names into that structure....

8s? McCalman & Palu (or even Dennis in a pinch)

Wings? Speight, Horne & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

I see Horne & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as utility outside backs, and To'omua, Lilo\Giteau as utility inside backs

 

[Lindommer]

A lot of conjecture here on this thread. These complicated choices will be sorted out during the RC tests when combinations will be tested and some borderline selections (Coleman/JOC (James O'Connor)) given a run.

 

[Garry Owens]

I wouldn't have Hooper in my 23

Reasons being :

1. Gill and Pocock are better on the ball
2. McMahon is a true impact "power" player both as a ball runner and as a defender. His defensive work rate in particular is off the charts. McMahon also gives you a 3rd line out option if you are starting Cliffy at 8

Let the flaming begin

 

[Joe Blow]

I would also start Higgers at 8 and Pocock at 7.

This would give us top class targets in Simmons, Fardy and Higgers with Skelton as an option every now and then at the front.
Pocock could be at the back.
Jones and Hooper on the bench to cover the back 5.

 

[fatprop]

I wouldn't have Hooper in my 23

Reasons being :

1. Gill and Pocock are better on the ball
2. McMahon is a true impact "power" player both as a ball runner and as a defender. His defensive work rate in particular is off the charts. McMahon also gives you a 3rd line out option if you are starting Cliffy at 8

Let the flaming begin

Gill won't make the squad

Typos brought to you by SwiftKey, tone brought to you by error

 

[Scrubber2050]

Hooper should be a certainty. Maybe and certainly based on form Gill should be second in line.

Pocock may make the wider squad but not the matchday 23.

 

[Lindommer]

Mmmm? Dunno about that, fp. If I was Liam I'd stay fit during October and November and keep a game kit packed. Let's be frank here, one of those who's going to be selected ahead of him does have a history of season-ending injuries.

On this point, one would imagine Cheika selecting a 40 man RWC squad with instructions for those not on the plane to stay off the piss and go easy on the family buffets.

 

[fatprop]

Let me rephrase, Hooper and Pocock are in front of him, barring injury he will miss out on the RWC squad, let alone the 23.

He is a good unit, but he has better units in front of him

Typos brought to you by SwiftKey, tone brought to you by error

 

[Brumby Runner]

8s? McCalman & Palu (or even Dennis in a pinch)

Wings? Speight, Horne & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

I see Horne & AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as utility outside backs, and To'omua, Lilo\Giteau as utility inside backs

On present form I'd prefer Dennis as the 6/8 to McCalman and that would allow Jones to take the lock/6 spot.

My starting wingers would be Speight and Horne, with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) covering 13, wing and 15 from the bench. I am happy to have a back three whose first inclination will be to run with the ball, and Izzy has shown better kicking skills lately when required to be adequate with assistance from To'omua or Foley.

I personally wouldn't have Matt Giteau in the squad until and unless he plays a number of games here first and shows he has the form to warrant selection. Can't see that he will have the opportunity to do that. Neither JOC (James O'Connor) nor Beale have shown consistent form at Super level this year to warrant selection, but I can see that one will be in the squad. In that case, JOC (James O'Connor) preferably over Beale.

 

[Viking]

The lineout is much understated and provides the majority of set piece ball. We know that our scrum will be serviceable at best against the top 4 so it's imperative that we have a lineout that will be superior to just about everyone else.

Why are you assuming our lineout will be "superior" with Simmons on the field? He ran the line-out last year and it was the worst it has been for years.

Although I do agree that he is currently the best line out option and scrummager. But that doesn't mean he is light years ahead of his competition - they are knocking on his heels very closely IMO. Yes he is valuable but certainly isn't irreplaceable at this stage.

If Simmons has a drop in form combined with Dennis taking the Tahs to the finals with some really dominate performances then I see no reason why he shouldn't start.

 

[Braveheart81]

Simmons' form is decent though. There's no way Cheika is going to ditch the majority of the locks from last year and there are far more compelling reasons to drop Carter and Horwill.

It seems like a case of wishful thinking that people are looking for reasons to leave Simmons out.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Has Dennis packed at lock in a "serious" scrum at test match level yet?

Fardy did against NZ last year and it did not go well.

I would be tempted to get him in there early in games during TRC to see how he goes