Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Viking]

It's curious that Cooper is "locked in" by many, given how little rugby he's played this season. If he was fit and in form, I'd say no problem, but it seems a bit presumptuous at the moment to be so confident of it. I'd say 10 is well open until we have some more surety of his performance. I'm a little concerned about To'omua too, getting re-injured. Cooper / Foley and To'omua is quite a different prospect to, say, Foley / Leali'ifano and ????
The latter scenario might raise Giteau's stocks a fair bit, although I'm a tad sceptical that he is the answer.

Your right. But I'd still take a fit Cooper in average form over Foley at the moment.

IMO Lilo is the form 10 at the moment. But then his kicking is an issue, Foley is certainly the better kicker but his range is limited. So selecting a 10 is going to be a hard one.
1. Cooper needs to be 100% fit
2. Lilo needs to kick better and keep his form on the field
3. Foley either needs to lift, or keep doing what he's doing but rely on Cooper and Lilo failing the first 2 options - which is very likely.
4. To'omua could be 10 if a suitable 12 arises. Gits possibly.

Certainly lots of likely options at 10 and plenty to think about.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Surely Giteau is only a 12 option outside To'omua though.

Imagine a 10-12 combo of Foley-Giteau? You are give up so much dominance in contact on both attack and defense.

 

[BDA]

With the Rugby Championship approaching I'll have a go at the extended squad

Props: Slipper, Sio, Kepu, Holmes, PAE, Alexander, Robinson
Hookers: Moore, TPN, Fainga'a, Hanson
Locks: Skelton, Simo, Carter, Horwill, Coleman
Backrow: Hooper, Pocock, Fardy, Jones, Higgers, Palu, McCalman, Vaea, Gill
SC: Genia, Phipps, White
FH: Foley, Cooper
Centre: To'omua, Kuridrani, Giteau, Lilo,
Wing: Speight, Cummins, Tomane
Fullback: Folau
Utility: JOC (James O'Connor), Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale

That's 42, which is slightly bigger than usual. Chieka had some interesting comments the other night about the fact that he need to see all our players training together under the same system to determine which ones stand out. I think the extended squad will include a few blokes that are unlikely to currently make the world cup squad but may be needed in the event of an injury. For instance Ita Vaea might be looked at if Palu is injured so it make sense to have him in the squad.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Did you watch the match? His defense was farkin' excellent. He sort of demolished Jonathan Davies and a few other guys.

A quality winger who knows where to be, can defend and can kick is a valuable resource.
His positional play and his boot have to have him considered, especially playing in a RWC, especially when that RWC is in England.

 

[Viking]

A quality winger who knows where to be, can defend and can kick is a valuable resource.
His positional play and his boot have to have him considered, especially playing in a RWC, especially when that RWC is in England.

Yeah I'd have a specialist winger on one side. Speight, Tomane, Naiyara, and to a lesser extent Cummins or Horne. Then on the other you'd put in an all-rounder who can kick and act as another fullback - JOC (James O'Connor), Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

At the moment on form you'd probably go with Speight and Mitchell.

 

[Viking]

Surely Giteau is only a 12 option outside To'omua though.

Imagine a 10-12 combo of Foley-Giteau? You are give up so much dominance in contact on both attack and defense.

Agreed. I think the only likely chance Gits has to start would be if To'omua was first choice 10 or injured.

 

[fatprop]

Surely Giteau is only a 12 option outside To'omua though.

Imagine a 10-12 combo of Foley-Giteau? You are give up so much dominance in contact on both attack and defense.

Lilo would have to be in the mix as well, good player

 

[Joeleee]

Yeah I'd have a specialist winger on one side. Speight, Tomane, Naiyara, and to a lesser extent Cummins or Horne. Then on the other you'd put in an all-rounder who can kick and act as another fullback - JOC (James O'Connor), Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

At the moment on form you'd probably go with Speight and Mitchell.

Interesting- why do you think Mitchell isn't a specialist winger? I tend to agree with the logic though. In my mind it's probably Speight on one wing then a utility on the other. I figure the utility is betweeen AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (most runs on the board/consistent), JOC (James O'Connor) (history of being great, though not for a while and a stop start Super campaign) and Rob Horne (in great form but missing some of the proven 'class' of the other two). Possibly another out and out winger for the 30 man squad as well (Mitchell, Naiyaravoro, Cummins etc.)

 

[Viking]

Interesting- why do you think Mitchell isn't a specialist winger? I tend to agree with the logic though. In my mind it's probably Speight on one wing then a utility on the other. I figure the utility is betweeen AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (most runs on the board/consistent), JOC (James O'Connor) (history of being great, though not for a while and a stop start Super campaign) and Rob Horne (in great form but missing some of the proven 'class' of the other two). Possibly another out and out winger for the 30 man squad as well (Mitchell, Naiyaravoro, Cummins etc.)

I do think he is a specialist winger. I guess I mean a specialist finisher, or a winger who is in form but has a limited skill-set. Eg. Speight, Tomane, Horne, Cummins, Naya. They can't kick or act as a second fullback - but form or finishing abilities could warrant selection but their limitations require the second winger to have a different skill-set.

Having Falou at fullback causes this issue. We need another winger/hybrid fullback at the back since Falou's skill-set is also limited. Eg. Kicking.

I don't agree Horne is a "utility" - he can't act as the second fullback.

 

[fatprop]

I wouldn't be against Naiyaravoro getting 10 minutes against Argentina to keep him in Aus.

It wouldn't be the worst test selection I have ever seen

 

[BDA]

Folau kicked very well on Saturday. He actually has a pretty decent boot. He's just so good with ball in hand, that I hate to see him kick away possession. He's certainly not going to win you a territorial kicking battle, but I highly doubt we'll see the Wallabies back three kicking for the corners with any regularity. I suspect we'll see a fair bit of kicking from the halves, but I would imagine the wallabies game plan will generally see the back three retaining possession - ala the tahs.

Naiyaravoro is an interesting option. There's a serious bottle neck of talent in the outside backs. Naiyaravoro doesn't have the experience or the finesse of the other options. But he does offer an interesting skill set. I've noticed on the weekend Cheika is getting pretty good use of Naiyaravoro in the midfield as a crash ball runner to get the team over the advantage line. He looks to be a very effective battering ram, something the wallabies use to get from Sailor and Tuqiri, and to a lesser extent, Ioane.

 

[Viking]

Folau kicked very well on Saturday. He actually has a pretty decent boot. He's just so good with ball in hand, that I hate to see him kick away possession. He's certainly not going to win you a territorial kicking battle, but I highly doubt we'll see the Wallabies back three kicking for the corners with any regularity. I suspect we'll see a fair bit of kicking from the halves, but I would imagine the wallabies game plan will generally see the back three retaining possession - ala the tahs.

Naiyaravoro is an interesting option. There's a serious bottle neck of talent in the outside backs. Naiyaravoro doesn't have the experience or the finesse of the other options. But he does offer an interesting skill set. I've noticed on the weekend Cheika is getting pretty good use of Naiyaravoro in the midfield as a crash ball runner to get the team over the advantage line. He looks to be a very effective battering ram, something the wallabies use to get from Sailor and Tuqiri, and to a lesser extent, Ioane.

It's not just about "kicking to the corners". Its also about getting out of our 22 quickly and effectively. Falou does have a decent boot, but he ain't quick and effective about it, he seems to kick decently when he has time. Having another decent option in the wings just gives us that extra efficiency at the back.

For example, it gives Falou the option to 1. kick, 2. run, or 3. pass back inside to a kicker in a better position. That kicker can clear OR put up a bomb for Falou to regather. The third option wouldn't be very effective if he is passing back to Horne, Cummins, Nairya etc.

I think people underestimate how important it is for the back three to be able to get out of our own half. It simply limits our options and less options means more pressure.

 

[BDA]

I agree that "getting out of your own 22" is important but that won't be left to the back 3 alone. Look at how the Tahs exit their 22 off a kick off or off a scrum/line-out in their own 22. 9 times out of 10 it's Phipps, Foley or Beale kicking. They're the same players that will often drop back on defence to receive kicks.

I do agree we should have a least 1 winger that has a decent boot. Although from what I've seen of England and Wales, they'll be mostly hoisting the ball up high and trying to force mistakes from our back three under the highball. In that respect, I think it's even more important that we choose wingers that are strong under the high ball.

 

[fatprop]

It's not just about "kicking to the corners". Its also about getting out of our 22 quickly and effectively. Falou does have a decent boot, but he ain't quick and effective about it, he seems to kick decently when he has time. Having another decent option in the wings just gives us that extra efficiency at the back.

For example, it gives Falou the option to 1. kick, 2. run, or 3. pass back inside to a kicker in a better position. That kicker can clear OR put up a bomb for Falou to regather. The third option wouldn't be very effective if he is passing back to Horne, Cummins, Nairya etc.

I think people underestimate how important it is for the back three to be able to get out of our own half. It simply limits our options and less options means more pressure.

But that quick kick out isn't/won't be the game plan except in desperation

The idea will be to run the ball back, get the team in some sort of alignment behind the ball, then probably kick it to space with a good defensive line.

Not kick it out so the ABs can do a quick throw and attack against a disjointed defensive line or so the Boks/Eng etc can slow the game down and lock and load another driving maul

 

[Viking]

But that quick kick out isn't/won't be the game plan except in desperation

The idea will be to run the ball back, get the team in some sort of alignment behind the ball, then probably kick it to space with a good defensive line.

Not kick it out so the ABs can do a quick throw and attack against a disjointed defensive line or so the Boks/Eng etc can slow the game down and lock and load another driving maul

The opposition immediately knows what we are going to do since the kicking option isn't there. Good luck running back to a defense who knows what's coming.

Yes you right, that quick kick out is out of desperation because we are under pressure - playing against the best teams in the world at the highest level in a RWC we should expect that kind of pressure. You simply can't go into a game expecting the game plan to work without having other options. You need to be adaptable. Game plans can change in the middle of a games. "Hence the play whats in front of you" mentality.

We need at least one winger with a boot. It's like saying we don't need a goal-kicker cos our game-plan is to score tries.

 

[Marcelo]

Bad news for Wallabies

Naholo is available to play for ABs:

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/su...-stay-with-highlanders-in-new-zealand--report

9 Smith
10 Carter/Barrett
11 Savea
12 Nonu
13 Conrad
14 Naholo
15 Milner Skudder/Ben Smith



And some fans don't want to call Taqele because they don't want to destroy his career abroad. Wallabies need every possible weapon

 

[Slim 293]

Nah, it's about whether Nayaravoro is good enough to be playing for the Wallabies.............

We have quite a few quality wingers, and I'm not sure if he's up there based on his form............

If Cheika wants to throw him a cap against the USA, that's fine if he's genuinely being groomed as a future prospect.........

But I don't see him going to the RWC without a big improvement.

 

[tigerland12]

I don't really get the Naiyavoro hype to be honest.

Yes maybe with further development, but aside from the odd flash of brilliance, he isn't exactly international quality.

 

[Viking]

I don't really get the Naiyavoro hype to be honest.

Yes maybe with further development, but aside from the odd flash of brilliance, he isn't exactly international quality.

People are already comparing him to Lomu when he's more like an inexperienced Wendall Sailor. RWC is too soon for him.

 

[barbarian]

I see the issues with him, but that try he scored against the Force was scary. And it isn't the first time he's done that this season. And he's only 23.