Wallabies Watch

[Swat]

This confirms my suspicion that Folau will sign with the ARU through to 2015. The ARU will make him a good offer (as they should).

They should make a good offer, but as for his comments confirming anything regarding his future in the game I wouldn't look into it. The best thing to take away from all the negotiation fiascos last year (quade, genia and the force etc) is that you should wait until they've signed on the dotted line before getting your hopes up.

 

[qwerty51]

I'm sure he said also said something along the lines of being committed to AFL just before he left as well.

 

[Richo]

Yep so you are more so refering to the caller? Kev just isn't one of them I agree. He could be but it is a skill learnt over time and experience. Time we don't have and experience won't come as there is little requirement in the side he plays most of his rugby for. I know this will cause flack but in reality the only experienced technician we have is Simmons. This is a very good reason that Pyle should be excelled through the system.

Tamani's lack of lineout work excludes him for mine. Past experience doesn't even rate him as a lineout option. Carrying a 203cm bloke with no ability in the air has to be a last resort and given last years cattle crisis we reached that stage. Looking at mongrel with a far broader range of skills I would take Douglas over him any day of the week. Only problem is you go back to the same issue in the second row with the lack of balance without the lineout technician.

A few years back we were screaming for more rock shifters, now we have options and are lacking in the technicians. Looking forward, what I like here are these blokes are young and their is scope for development.

Bring on the accusations of Reds bias peoples but I think we will see a lock pairing of Horwill and Simmons and this is why:

Simmons - Only real calling and technician option. An absolute skill required in any side. Greenhorn can't be handed these duties in the starting side. Greenhorn's first priority will be adapting to the leap in intensity with as little extra pressure as possible

Horwill - Will be captain and first bloke selected. Rightfully so.

That raises the question of the reserve lock. The two options for mine are Pyle and Douglas. If any merit could be seen in Horwill at 6, I would start Douglas in a heartbeat. The merit for Pyle is the need to be blooding another technician and as insurance policy if we lose our starting lineout caller and our lineout collapses in a disorganised heap.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I'd thought it should be Douglas until recently, but I now feel a specialist technician is needed. My impression is that in addition to not calling, Horwill isn't a number one option in an ideal world either. You can make do if he is, but really you want a true first option like Sharpe or Matfield. Simmons is the closest we have that has the experience you talked about. He's also played great after a slow start.

Who comes off the bench is bound up with whoever the loosies are and whether MMM plays. I'd be inclined to take Douglas because all the top 6/8 candidates are excellent in the line out with the exception of Palu, who will surely start.

 

[Gnostic]

If Mowen starts at 6 (I know he won't even make the 22 and possibly not the 30?) he can call the lineout and allow Pyle or Douglas to be selected beside Horwill. Plus it will given three extremely good options to ensure good first phase ball. I know that some will point to the issues the Ponies had with the Crusaders on the weekend, but that game is an aberration in the last couple of years and the Crusaders have the best lineout stats for attacking opposition ball.

 

[BDA]

well that's a bit different querty. He'd signed a 2 year deal with AFL and he simply indicated that he intended to stick out the term of his contract.

Folau's motivations appear to be similar to that SBW. He wants to be a success. That means earning money, but also proving himself to be an elite athlete capable of playing more than just rugby league.

Whether Folau is to stay in rugby has always come down to 2 factors in my opinion. 1) whether he's enjoying/excelling at the sport; and 2) whether the monies right.

In terms of no.1 above, its clearly evident that he's picked up the sport magnificently over the last 3 months. He's scoring tries and looks to be enjoying himself. You have to remember that this is a guy that was clearly not enjoying himself in AFL, where he never truly picked up the game and his skills werent appreciated. It is no wonder that he only signed a 1 year deal with union as he was no doubt anxious that his time in rugby union could be more of the same. Folau must be feeling very comfortable where he's at currently. and he knows that there is a lot he can do and achieve in rugby that he cant in League. A world cup, an olympics 7s appearance, touring the world, etc. These are the types of things that would weigh on the mind of a guy like Folau. He knows he could go back to league at any time. So for a guy of Folau's nature, to whom money and success are clearly large motivating factors, leaving rugby now would surely be seen as a missed opportunity.

The money also needs to be right. Folau wont work for peanuts and this time around the ARU wont be criticized for opening their cheque book.

My reservations at the start of the season were that Folau would have limited success in his first year, and that his limited success would not be enough to entice either party to extend their contractual relationship. With his success to date, I cant see how both sides arent very keen to extend his stay.

 

[Richo]

Yep so you are more so refering to the caller? Kev just isn't one of them I agree. He could be but it is a skill learnt over time and experience. Time we don't have and experience won't come as there is little requirement in the side he plays most of his rugby for. I know this will cause flack but in reality the only experienced technician we have is Simmons. This is a very good reason that Pyle should be excelled through the system.

Tamani's lack of lineout work excludes him for mine. Past experience doesn't even rate him as a lineout option. Carrying a 203cm bloke with no ability in the air has to be a last resort and given last years cattle crisis we reached that stage. Looking at mongrel with a far broader range of skills I would take Douglas over him any day of the week. Only problem is you go back to the same issue in the second row with the lack of balance without the lineout technician.

A few years back we were screaming for more rock shifters, now we have options and are lacking in the technicians. Looking forward, what I like here are these blokes are young and their is scope for development.

Bring on the accusations of Reds bias peoples but I think we will see a lock pairing of Horwill and Simmons and this is why:

Simmons - Only real calling and technician option. An absolute skill required in any side. Greenhorn can't be handed these duties in the starting side. Greenhorn's first priority will be adapting to the leap in intensity with as little extra pressure as possible

Horwill - Will be captain and first bloke selected. Rightfully so.

That raises the question of the reserve lock. The two options for mine are Pyle and Douglas. If any merit could be seen in Horwill at 6, I would start Douglas in a heartbeat. The merit for Pyle is the need to be blooding another technician and as insurance policy if we lose our starting lineout caller and our lineout collapses in a disorganised heap.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I'd thought it should be Douglas until recently, but I now feel a specialist technician is needed. My impression is that in addition to not calling, Horwill isn't a number one option in an ideal world either. You can make do if he is, but really you want a true first option like Sharpe or Matfield. Simmons is the closest we have that has the experience you talked about. He's also played great after a slow start.

Who comes off the bench is bound up with whoever the loosies are and whether MMM plays. I'd be inclined to take Douglas because all the top 6/8 candidates are excellent in the line out with the exception of Palu, who will surely start.

 

[Swat]

well that's a bit different querty. He'd signed a 2 year deal with AFL and he simply indicated that he intended to stick out the term of his contract.

THE AFL has beaten rival codes to secure the signature of rugby league superstar Israel Folau, who will today announce he has joined the Greater Western Sydney team on a three-year, $4.2 million deal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/western-sydneys-42m-snares-folau-for-afl-20100531-wrim.html#ixzz2SVHs9fEx

 

[Ruggo]

Blindside selection now tougher than ever. MMM looked to have it locked with Mowen chasing him. Then MMM goes down and the stars align for Mowen. Now in the last couple of weeks Higgers stands up with good performances and being the incumbent will help his claim.

What will the lions do is the big question regarding their back row? Now Warburton has locked in the big C, will he play at 6 after Wales success vs England with Gatland maybe looking to speed up his side to combat what will be a strength of ours. Traditionally you would say this isn't the method of the home nations but Gatland wouldn't surprise me to break that mold.

 

[BDA]

THE AFL has beaten rival codes to secure the signature of rugby league superstar Israel Folau, who will today announce he has joined the Greater Western Sydney team on a three-year, $4.2 million deal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/western-sydneys-42m-snares-folau-for-afl-20100531-wrim.html#ixzz2SVHs9fEx

Sorry three years. I couldnt recall whether it was 2 or 3

 

[Tomikin]

Yep so you are more so refering to the caller? Kev just isn't one of them I agree. He could be but it is a skill learnt over time and experience. Time we don't have and experience won't come as there is little requirement in the side he plays most of his rugby for. I know this will cause flack but in reality the only experienced technician we have is Simmons. This is a very good reason that Pyle should be excelled through the system.

Tamani's lack of lineout work excludes him for mine. Past experience doesn't even rate him as a lineout option. Carrying a 203cm bloke with no ability in the air has to be a last resort and given last years cattle crisis we reached that stage. Looking at mongrel with a far broader range of skills I would take Douglas over him any day of the week. Only problem is you go back to the same issue in the second row with the lack of balance without the lineout technician.

A few years back we were screaming for more rock shifters, now we have options and are lacking in the technicians. Looking forward, what I like here are these blokes are young and their is scope for development.

Bring on the accusations of Reds bias peoples but I think we will see a lock pairing of Horwill and Simmons and this is why:

Simmons - Only real calling and technician option. An absolute skill required in any side. Greenhorn can't be handed these duties in the starting side. Greenhorn's first priority will be adapting to the leap in intensity with as little extra pressure as possible

Horwill - Will be captain and first bloke selected. Rightfully so.

That raises the question of the reserve lock. The two options for mine are Pyle and Douglas. If any merit could be seen in Horwill at 6, I would start Douglas in a heartbeat. The merit for Pyle is the need to be blooding another technician and as insurance policy if we lose our starting lineout caller and our lineout collapses in a disorganised heap.

Well you could go with someone like Mowen calling then you can go with two locks who ain't technicians.. Just another option and is great in lineouts and in the form of his life. Although could be classed as a Greenhorn

 

[Richo]

Having just watched the Rebels v Chiefs, I'm less excited about JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 and more certain that Beale will be at 15. The former had some good moments but at least as many that were poor -- if Quade cops it four intercepts and charge-downs then so should JOC (James O'Connor). KB (Kurtley Beale) is looking very fit and threatening too.

 

[Richo]

Paul Cully's 25 for the first part of the squad:

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/uni...eze-into-deans-25man-tent-20130506-2j2nn.html

Cully's squad
Forwards (14). Hookers: Stephen Moore (Brumbies), Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs). Props: Ben Alexander (Brumbies), Sekope Kepu (Waratahs), Benn Robinson (Waratahs), James Slipper (Reds). Second-rowers: James Horwill, (Reds) Rob Simmons (Reds), Sitaleki Timani (Waratahs), Hugh McMeniman (Western Force). Loose forwards: Wycliff Palu (Waratahs), George Smith (Brumbies), Michael Hooper (Waratahs), Ben Mowen (Brumbies) Backs (11). Halfbacks: Will Genia (Reds), Nic White (Brumbies). Five-eighths: James O'Connor (Rebels), Quade Cooper (Reds). Midfielders: Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs), Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies), Pat McCabe (Brumbies). Wings/fullbacks: Kurtley Beale (Rebels), Israel Folau (Waratahs), Digby Ioane (Reds), Nick Cummins (Western Force).

I like most of it but would take Douglas over Timani, Tomane over Cummins, Tapuai over McCabe, and probably Palmer over Kepu.

 

[Athilnaur]

USA Rugger - in 2011 McCabe was running at 92% tackle completion over hundreds of tackles, (www.rugbystats.com) and I wonder if you have actually seen any of those games if you don't think he is a dominant tackler. He might not be Frank Bunce reincarnated but he is pretty good at it. The never passes comment is silly, I suggest you rewatch his last two games.

I am not buying into the shifted proposition he should or shouldn't be selected, as I posted at the time there are lots of reasons why he might not be. My post was just to defend a player I think deserves a lot more credit for his time in gold than you were prepared to allow.

Personally I haven't decided about him at 12, there's reasons he has merit, but reasons I'd select Lealiifano. I'd actually like to see him at 13 though not at the expense of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). I think McCabes role will clarify as he gets more gametime.

 

[USARugger]

I don't think he shouldn't be allowed in the Gold. He just isn't an international 12 and that's become painfully obvious over ~20 tests. My frustration stems from the way Deans tries to use him, not how he plays himself.

Thanks for the tackle stat. I wasn't trying to say he didn't have good defensive capabilities, he's a very reliable defender. I actually watched the South Africa RWC quarter yesterday and he was a rock. I just don't think the statement that he is a 'dominant' defender holds more water with McCabe at international level than it does with most of our other centers yet it seems to be constantly attributed to him and nobody else.

I agree he should be somewhere in the outside backs. Like I said my favorite games involving Pat were for the Brumbies when he was at 15 or on the wing.

 

[USARugger]

Having just watched the Rebels v Chiefs, I'm less excited about JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 and more certain that Beale will be at 15. The former had some good moments but at least as many that were poor -- if Quade cops it four intercepts and charge-downs then so should JOC (James O'Connor). KB (Kurtley Beale) is looking very fit and threatening too.

It looked like Retallick was in JOC (James O'Connor)'s blind-spot when he went to line up the kick but JOC (James O'Connor) also completely butchered the angle of his kick and went for distance when he should have just been trying to get the ball out immediately.

 

[Athilnaur]

It looked like Retallick was in JOC (James O'Connor)'s blind-spot when he went to line up the kick but JOC (James O'Connor) also completely butchered the angle of his kick and went for distance when he should have just been trying to get the ball out immediately.

I agree, better to learn that lesson now than vs the Lions! I reckon Retallick will remember that try very fondly for years.

 

[USARugger]

If Mowen starts at 6 (I know he won't even make the 22 and possibly not the 30?) he can call the lineout and allow Pyle or Douglas to be selected beside Horwill. Plus it will given three extremely good options to ensure good first phase ball. I know that some will point to the issues the Ponies had with the Crusaders on the weekend, but that game is an aberration in the last couple of years and the Crusaders have the best lineout stats for attacking opposition ball.

If I was picking right now I'd have Mowen as the starting 6. As you already mentioned he's been in great form not just jumping but also calling the Brumbies line out this year. It would also open up the opportunity for us to employ two 'enforcer' type locks which may be necessary against the Lions. MMM on the bench to cover the locks and 6. Higginbotham still making some critical errors (primarily defensive) these past few weeks that should keep him either on the bench or out of the squad entirely.

 

[Dave Beat]

USA Rugger - in 2011 McCabe was running at 92% tackle completion over hundreds of tackles, (www.rugbystats.com) and I wonder if you have actually seen any of those games if you don't think he is a dominant tackler. He might not be Frank Bunce reincarnated but he is pretty good at it. The never passes comment is silly, I suggest you rewatch his last two games.

I am not buying into the shifted proposition he should or shouldn't be selected, as I posted at the time there are lots of reasons why he might not be. My post was just to defend a player I think deserves a lot more credit for his time in gold than you were prepared to allow.

Personally I haven't decided about him at 12, there's reasons he has merit, but reasons I'd select Lealiifano. I'd actually like to see him at 13 though not at the expense of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). I think McCabes role will clarify as he gets more gametime.

McCabe wouldnt be on my radar as I / we havent seen enough of him over the last 12 months and
Taps and Lilo at 12 - with Taps just edgeing out Lilo if 9 Genia, 10 Cooper - combinations are important. Plus Taps is the incumbent and has continued his good form
Back 3 - 11 Folua, 14 Digby, Beale 15 would provide good attack and D
13 JOC (James O'Connor) he runs excellent lines, can read a game, has variation to his passes, strong in defence, and the back 3 would be even better with these qualities and distribution out wider.
Reserve Bench - Lilo for 10 & 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for the outside backs, White for the half.

McCabe he has always been very solid in defence rather than attack, on paper I'd say his stats on paper are always strong in both fields so it is a hard debate., You can't win a game on paper, stats are ussuallyrecords of what is happening on the ball. Unfortunately what happens just off the ball isn't recorded.

 

[USARugger]

I agree, better to learn that lesson now than vs the Lions! I reckon Retallick will remember that try very fondly for years.

Hopefully it was just a mistake, they happen to everyone. I'd think 37 tests would be enough time to learn how to kick for touch under pressure!

Dave Beat

As much as the idea of JOC (James O'Connor) at 13 gets me all hot and bothered there are zero grounds on which he should be there anytime soon. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is in great form and is the incumbent and JOC (James O'Connor) has played literally zero games at 13.

 

[Slim 293]

McCabe wouldnt be on my radar as I / we havent seen enough of him over the last 12 months and
Taps and Lilo at 12 - with Taps just edgeing out Lilo if 9 Genia, 10 Cooper - combinations are important. Plus Taps is the incumbent and has continued his good form
Back 3 - 11 Folua, 14 Digby, Beale 15 would provide good attack and D
13 JOC (James O'Connor) he runs excellent lines, can read a game, has variation to his passes, strong in defence, and the back 3 would be even better with these qualities and distribution out wider.
Reserve Bench - Lilo for 10 & 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for the outside backs, White for the half.

McCabe he has always been very solid in defence rather than attack, on paper I'd say his stats on paper are always strong in both fields so it is a hard debate., You can't win a game on paper, stats are ussuallyrecords of what is happening on the ball. Unfortunately what happens just off the ball isn't recorded.

I think most people would agree the complete opposite about Taps.........

While yes, he is the incumbent he hasn't been in good form at all..........

And I still don't understand the call from a few to play JOC (James O'Connor) at 13?