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Wallabies vs Lions , 19th July Suncorp

SamoanNo8

Bill Watson (15)
Selection at hooker for the Wallabies will be very interesting. Both Porecki (9 matches since 2023 RWC) and Faessler are quite underdone for minutes through injury. Faessler was first pick last year but hasnt played much this year, while Porecki has had lots of injury concerns for a long time now. Pollard had a pretty strong Super campaign but in the little opportunity he has had at test level he has not looked totally comfortable. All bring their own strengths and weaknesses. Sounds like from the leaks that Faessler has the starting gig? Pollard a strong ball carrier to bring on late with others like Gleeson/Hooper and Bell.
Faessler is a natural footballer and a shrewd operator as a thrower and at the back of the maul. Despite his injury layoffs, Faessler seemed comfortable in the Reds' hit out against the Lions and I expect him to be able to handle a 55+ minute stint come this Saturday evening.

Pollard has been immersed in a strong Brumbies setup and has built sound habits which will allow him to handle the rigours of Test football, as demonstrated by his credible cameo against Fiji.

Regards
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
You would expect Lynagh's loosies to protect him a bit, so given that 2/3rds of the backrow will be his Reds teammates, they should already have some well established cohesion. Wilson and McReight tend to run support lines off him fairly often too, so it might be another reason as to why he's apparently gotten the nod.

If you combine that with the fact that Donaldson covers multiple positions, and Lynagh's kick accuracy out of hand and off the tee is higher, I can absolutely see why Joe has put him in at 10. The way the Walabies play, they don't need a world beater at 10, they need a steady hand who is going to nail his kicks and get the ball to the outside backs. It's probably a close call, but I can absolutely see why Joe has apparently made the decision to start Lynagh.
 

Major Tom

Trevor Allan (34)
I don't think Lynagh's game is more complete right now.

I agree that Lolesio and Donaldson have both been ho hum at test level. It's largely why Lolesio never really nailed down the spot despite being first choice for most of the last 3+ years.

Lynagh has barely played at test level and (I think it is either Strewthcobber or KOB's stat) that he has only passed the ball a handful of times and never in the opposition half. So far there's basically no evidence of him doing anything (good or bad) at test level in his limited appearances.

At Super Rugby level where we've seen them all play a fair bit they look like much of a muchness to me. Lynagh is younger so it's reasonable to assume some development but at this point it's all projection. I don't think it is a reasonable position to think that the Wallabies are in a stronger position this weekend with Lynagh instead of Lolesio or Donaldson. That to me seems like pure hope.

My view on Lynagh is that he probably isn't the future at 10 for the Wallabies (and if he is, it will continue to be rough sledding for the Wallabies). He's too small and isn't a plus athlete so is already at a significant disadvantage to 10s from the other top 10 nations. I have felt the same about Lolesio for the last few years. I don't think any of these guys are good enough to be the long term solution.

Hopefully we will have someone come through in the next couple of years and it will be crystal clear that we've finally got an option that looks like a long term solution at 10 for the Wallabies.
At least he can kick the ball further than 20m. That in itself is an obvious upgrade on Noah. And Donno kicks the thing dead too often to be the main man steering the team around.
I don’t think size is an absolute must as long we can protect him a bit. A head knock is the real worry imo.
A plus is the lions wouldn’t have played I’m I don’t reckon. He has deceptive pace.
 

Sword of Justice

Alan Cameron (40)
At Super Rugby level where we've seen them all play a fair bit they look like much of a muchness to me.
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with any part of your post but this. Lynagh and Donaldson don’t play anything alike, to the point I would like to question how many Reds games you have watched in the last 24 months (or your entire life)?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with any part of your post but this. Lynagh and Donaldson don’t play anything alike, to the point I would like to question how many Reds games you have watched in the last 24 months (or your entire life)?

I'm not saying they play the same way. I'm saying they're much of a muchness in terms of their ability. They're guys who are decent Super Rugby starters but I don't think they are every going to be elite test players.

I don’t think size is an absolute must as long we can protect him a bit. A head knock is the real worry imo.

It's not an absolute must but the smaller you are, the harder it is to succeed.

Damian McKenzie is a similar size but I would argue a substantially better athlete than Lolesio or Lynagh. Size has been a struggle for him at times though. Getting to him with physicality has been a good way to get him off his game in the past.

I would say someone like Beauden Barrett is the benchmark from a size and athleticism standpoint for an international 10.
 

Adam84

John Eales (66)
Tadhg Beirne rumoured to be starting at blindside flanker, signalling an intent to target the set-piece and lineout in particular.

That's a big pack with Curry and Conan the other backrowers.
 

SamoanNo8

Bill Watson (15)
Interested to see what tactical changes Joe Schmidt might introduce to unleash Joseph-Aukuso Sua'ali'i.

From the outside centre channel against Fiji, Sua'ali'i found himself running hard, quasi-decoy "unders" lines in order to draw defenders and create space. Alas, this left him starved of meaningful ball-in-hand opportunities.

As many astute G&G members have noted, this setup somewhat muted JAS' impact. To leverage JAS, could we see Schmidt look to:

1. exploit JAS' aerial skills (in the mould of the great Israel Folau);
2. re-position JAS' starting position in attack (perhaps shifting him closer to the ruck or wider out to exploit mismatches); or
3. other options to leverage JAS in attack?

Eager to hear other's ideas on Schmidt's "JAS Playbook", and how the Wallabies can elevate JAS from pawn to weapon in attack, particularly against the Lions.

Regards
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Rod McCall (65)
Think I must be one of a very few who believes Chessum has been a standout in his matches leading to the first test. His selection if it happens won't surprise me in the least. If anything I reckon Conan has been well handled by the likes of Gleeson and has been generally underwhelming.
100%

Chessum in the early matches was huge and doesn’t have the same spotlight of Itoje. Conan gets noticed because of the sheer amount of carries and kick returns. I haven’t seen him be all that effective though in comparison to guys like Earl.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
In raw natural ability Donaldson may have the jump on Lynagh, but in execution and reading the play Lynagh is superior, at Super Rugby level. Of course it would have been preferable for Noah to have been available but here we are.
Lynagh can play the role of Lolesio and maybe add something to it. It will be a big ask but I’d guess that he is up for it. He needs to be protected and to underplay his hand. This year for the Reds his running game has blossomed a little. Confidence may be a factor after his recent injury problems? Joe is generally very conservative so if he selects him one would have to think he is ready.
 

Yoda

Arch Winning (36)
His game is more complete than either, both who have been a bit ho hum at the highest level. If you don’t see this then we have been watching a different game. As said, it is early for him but he is surely earmarked as our next 10. I imagine he will play Lolesios role but only better.
His cameos off the bench for the Wallabies were hardly outstanding. I don't see the Lynagh hype. Apart from being the son of a great player. I wish him well but Donaldson would have been my pick to start with JOC (James O'Connor) off the bench. You won't beat the Lions by penalty goals. We need to score tries and Tate and Ben are our best attacking halves combination.
 

Yoda

Arch Winning (36)
You would expect Lynagh's loosies to protect him a bit, so given that 2/3rds of the backrow will be his Reds teammates, they should already have some well established cohesion. Wilson and McReight tend to run support lines off him fairly often too, so it might be another reason as to why he's apparently gotten the nod.

If you combine that with the fact that Donaldson covers multiple positions, and Lynagh's kick accuracy out of hand and off the tee is higher, I can absolutely see why Joe has put him in at 10. The way the Walabies play, they don't need a world beater at 10, they need a steady hand who is going to nail his kicks and get the ball to the outside backs. It's probably a close call, but I can absolutely see why Joe has apparently made the decision to start Lynagh.
"You would expect Lynagh's loosies to protect him a bit, so given that 2/3rds of the backrow will be his Reds teammates, they should already have some well established cohesion".... so how did Lynagh end up being polaxed so often playing for the Reds? Great back up by his forwards!
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
You won't beat the Lions by penalty goals.

Aside from the third test which was a blowout, the first two tests of the 2013 tour were 23-21 and 16-15.

In 2021 the tests were 22-17, 27-9, 19-16.

In 2017 the tests were 30-15, 24-21, 15-15.

History suggests penalty goals are probably going to be very important and the only reason they won't be is if we're getting smashed.
 

Strewthcobber

Michael Lynagh (62)
Just about all of Lynaghs linebreaks that I saw this year were off that wrap around play he likes. Gets good value from it against the Super Rugby opponenets

But if I know it, then the Lions coaches will be on to it, and he's going to have some very big bodies trying to stop it. Will be interesting to see if it's in the quiver for this game
 

Tomthumb

Ken Catchpole (46)
At least he can kick the ball further than 20m. That in itself is an obvious upgrade on Noah. And Donno kicks the thing dead too often to be the main man steering the team around.
I don’t think size is an absolute must as long we can protect him a bit. A head knock is the real worry imo.
A plus is the lions wouldn’t have played I’m I don’t reckon. He has deceptive pace.
When compared to a snail perhaps
 

Major Tom

Trevor Allan (34)
I'm not saying they play the same way. I'm saying they're much of a muchness in terms of their ability. They're guys who are decent Super Rugby starters but I don't think they are every going to be elite test players.



It's not an absolute must but the smaller you are, the harder it is to succeed.

Damian McKenzie is a similar size but I would argue a substantially better athlete than Lolesio or Lynagh. Size has been a struggle for him at times though. Getting to him with physicality has been a good way to get him off his game in the past.

I would say someone like Beauden Barrett is the benchmark from a size and athleticism standpoint for an international 10.
Beauden Barrett!
The benchmark!? Do you mean the pinnacle?
Elite top end speed, kicks off both feet.
 

Strewthcobber

Michael Lynagh (62)
Penalty goals will be no where near as important as they have been in the past. Just look at the stats. Lynagh has kicked 9 of them in the last 2 years. Fin Smith barely kicks one a game on average.

England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales kicked 25 penalty goals between them in 20 combined games in this years 6 nations etc etc.

Drop goals are even rarer

Putting your penalty 5m out from the goal line is the new sharpshooter
 

Hogan

Sydney Middleton (9)
I don't think Lynagh's game is more complete right now.

I agree that Lolesio and Donaldson have both been ho hum at test level. It's largely why Lolesio never really nailed down the spot despite being first choice for most of the last 3+ years.

Lynagh has barely played at test level and (I think it is either Strewthcobber or KOB's stat) that he has only passed the ball a handful of times and never in the opposition half. So far there's basically no evidence of him doing anything (good or bad) at test level in his limited appearances.

At Super Rugby level where we've seen them all play a fair bit they look like much of a muchness to me. Lynagh is younger so it's reasonable to assume some development but at this point it's all projection. I don't think it is a reasonable position to think that the Wallabies are in a stronger position this weekend with Lynagh instead of Lolesio or Donaldson. That to me seems like pure hope.

My view on Lynagh is that he probably isn't the future at 10 for the Wallabies (and if he is, it will continue to be rough sledding for the Wallabies). He's too small and isn't a plus athlete so is already at a significant disadvantage to 10s from the other top 10 nations. I have felt the same about Lolesio for the last few years. I don't think any of these guys are good enough to be the long term solution.

Hopefully we will have someone come through in the next couple of years and it will be crystal clear that we've finally got an option that looks like a long term solution at 10 for the Wallabies.
Our young playmakers don’t play nearly enough top level rugby to develop to the level that we all demand. 14 or 15 games (with some of those being only 50-60 mins) during the Super season compared to the 30-40 games that their counterparts play in the northern hemisphere. And most of our young 10’s are thrown in the deep end way too soon without serving their apprenticeship to hone their craft and gain experience playing in the most critical and scrutinised position in the game. Catch 22 I guess.
 

Major Tom

Trevor Allan (34)
Our young playmakers don’t play nearly enough top level rugby to develop to the level that we all demand. 14 or 15 games (with some of those being only 50-60 mins) during the Super season compared to the 30-40 games that their counterparts play in the northern hemisphere. And most of our young 10’s are thrown in the deep end way too soon without serving their apprenticeship to hone their craft and gain experience playing in the most critical and scrutinised position in the game. Catch 22 I guess.
True. But not many in the NH ply their trade against the kiwis every 2nd week. Getting that 3rd tier will help a lot with volume. Thank god lynagh got some game time with the Aussie A last year and the reds NH tour.
 
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