Wallabies vs Ireland - 3rd test - Saturday 23rd June 2018 - Sydney Football Stadium

[Istanbul]

A point I've made many times on various threads, but the ARU and the NSWRU are seemingly oblivious to that part of the world. The fact that Penrith Junior RL print their code of conduct in English, Tongan and Samoan might be something of a clue to the demographic there?

If I'm Tongan or Samoan I'm thinking it used to be great seeing Inga the Winger and Willie O represent on a world stage but now I'm seeing half the wallabies and half the AllBlacks being Pasifika. League is letting me support my nation on a world stage. Screw rugby league is where it's at is what I would be thinking.

 

[Quick Hands]

If I'm Tongan or Samoan I'm thinking it used to be great seeing Inga the Winger and Willie O represent on a world stage but now I'm seeing half the wallabies and half the AllBlacks being Pasifika. League is letting me support my nation on a world stage. Screw rugby league is where it's at is what I would be thinking.

If you were Tongan or Samoan, you probably would have been at Cambelltown Stadium with the other 19,000 watching Tonga and Samoa play a league test.

 

[TSR]

That’s the thing that pisses me. The finger pointing that’s Australians complain about the ref. Yes, it happens way too much, but you only have to have a quick look on social media to see it’s not something Australians do significantly more than any other country.

 

[Silverado]

I think a factor in the struggle Australian rugby union has is the incessant and institutional complaining about the referees. It has created a narrative that the game is too complicated for people to be bothering with it. There are supporters of every side who moan about referees (wrongly for the most part, imho, because I think the general standard of refereeing is much higher than the received wisdom) but Australia and Wales are the only nations that have such a negative attitude to the referees. It doesn’t matter too much in Wales because there really aren’t too many options for punters and rugby really is the National sport, but in Australia, where you have plenty of other sports that are much simpler for the layman to comprehend, the narrative that the referee hasn’t a clue, or worse, is biased/ crooked, is harmful for the game. Cheika didn’t carry on about referees, when he coached Leinster, to anything like the extent he now does and I think a lot of that comes down to the rugby culture.


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I think the problem comes from the correct term "referees". The man with the whistle should be the sole arbiter. The situation where the fed gets over ruled by the TMO, get shit calls from the AR etc makes it a very hard game to market in a competitive market like Australia. I watched with some non rugby friends, and I couldn't explain the decisions and I'm pretty sure they won't be jumping on board the ever shrinking "Rugby Culture "


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[K974]

Very insightful analysis of one of the problems with rugby in Australia.

I think as an outsider a problem with Australian rugby is the expectation that they should not only win but entertain in doing so. Clearly the heritage of enterinaing teams is part of Australian rugby culture , the 84 team, the 91 team and so on.

I'd suggest australia have far more naturally gifted players than ireland , and a significantly better cutting edge . but ireland are well drilled and know how to grind out scores and manage field position etc

A little bit of pragmatism and ability to grind out wins , matched in with Natural ability and you have one seirous side .

But I always get the feeling that victories which are ground out won't be acceptable they need to entertain as well, and assist with getting the popularity of rugby back up there in australia ,
If they win first I think that would follow


Maybe I'm wrong but I always gather the wallabies are not just on a mission to win a game but to win back fans , a huge and unfair pressure other teams don't have to deal with

 

[Istanbul]

If you were Tongan or Samoan, you probably would have been at Cambelltown Stadium with the other 19,000 watching Tonga and Samoa play a league test.

Absolutely- I'm agreeing with you. Union needs to do more for the Pacific Islands

 

[Grant NZ]

you must have missed the furore and IRB apology to the All Blacks in 2007 after a cacophony of whining about Barnes.

I certainly missed the apology.

 

[the plastic paddy]

I think the problem comes from the correct term "referees". The man with the whistle should be the sole arbiter. The situation where the fed gets over ruled by the TMO, get shit calls from the AR etc makes it a very hard game to market in a competitive market like Australia. I watched with some non rugby friends, and I couldn't explain the decisions and I'm pretty sure they won't be jumping on board the ever shrinking "Rugby Culture "


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But it isn’t a problem for the rest of the world. Rugby is growing exponentially in the NH, sadly to the detriment of the game in the SH, and you just do not hear coaches moaning about the officiating in the way Cheika does. Tellingly he didn’t moan about the refs, like he now does, when he coached in the NH because the culture just won’t stand it.


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[Silverado]

I think as an outsider a problem with Australian rugby is the expectation that they should not only win but entertain in doing so. Clearly the heritage of enterinaing teams is part of Australian rugby culture , the 84 team, the 91 team and so on.

I'd suggest australia have far more naturally gifted players than ireland , and a significantly better cutting edge . but ireland are well drilled and know how to grind out scores and manage field position etc

A little bit of pragmatism and ability to grind out wins , matched in with Natural ability and you have one seirous side .

But I always get the feeling that victories which are ground out won't be acceptable they need to entertain as well, and assist with getting the popularity of rugby back up there in australia ,
If they win first I think that would follow


Maybe I'm wrong but I always gather the wallabies are not just on a mission to win a game but to win back fans , a huge and unfair pressure other teams don't have to deal with

Very true, but I'm watching State of Origin which is expansive and exciting and attracting a huge audience. It's s different kettle of fish that we're dealing with here


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[cyclopath]

I think as an outsider a problem with Australian rugby is the expectation that they should not only win but entertain in doing so. Clearly the heritage of enterinaing teams is part of Australian rugby culture , the 84 team, the 91 team and so on.

I'd suggest australia have far more naturally gifted players than ireland , and a significantly better cutting edge . but ireland are well drilled and know how to grind out scores and manage field position etc

A little bit of pragmatism and ability to grind out wins , matched in with Natural ability and you have one seirous side .

But I always get the feeling that victories which are ground out won't be acceptable they need to entertain as well, and assist with getting the popularity of rugby back up there in australia ,
If they win first I think that would follow


Maybe I'm wrong but I always gather the wallabies are not just on a mission to win a game but to win back fans , a huge and unfair pressure other teams don't have to deal with

The problem with us winning is not so simple as style. It is decades of poor coaching structures and planning, of gross waste of our limited financial resources since 2003, the constant drain of good players to greater riches in Europe and so on. Couple that with a cocked up provincial competition spread over about 18 time zones, and the reason we're not winning looks more complex. We don't have the population to attract big TV deals, especially now the money from Europe getting Super Rugby packaged in will go.
Yeah, if we won more often, stayed around 1-2 in the world, things might be rosier.
But it's complicated. And we have never done pragmatic too well.

 

[cyclopath]

I certainly missed the apology.

Sorry, that was Paddy O'Brien after he threw Dickinson under the bus.
Nonetheless, the whinging was there. Which was the point - fans / coaches / media from all countries whine about refs, even such bastions of reason and Zen as Ireland.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Yeah, I get you like to lob in once every year or two, have a crow, then disappear again, but this is arrant nonsense. From reading social media today there is plenty of evidence of a lot of Irish whining about the reffing, and lack or more cards; Shag Hansen has had a go at the reffing of late; you must have missed the furore and IRB apology to the All Blacks in 2007 after a cacophony of whining about Barnes. It happens everywhere. Spare me the sanctimony.

I am sorry if you mistook my attempts at constructive criticism for sanctimony.


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[Grant NZ]

Sorry, that was Paddy O'Brien after he threw Dickinson under the bus.
Nonetheless, the whinging was there. Which was the point - fans / coaches / media from all countries whine about refs, even such bastions of reason and Zen as Ireland.

Point taken, I knew what you actually meant.

Ireland got an apology of their own a few years back too.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/mar/15/six-nations-irb-apologises-ireland-wales

 

[the plastic paddy]

Sorry, that was Paddy O'Brien after he threw Dickinson under the bus.
Nonetheless, the whinging was there. Which was the point - fans / coaches / media from all countries whine about refs, even such bastions of reason and Zen as Ireland.

There are ways and means of making comments about the referee, cheika’s table slamming etc is counter productive, feeds a false narrative about the quality of the officiating of the game and, most importantly, is really bad for the image of rugby union in Australia. That you have to go back to 2007 for an example of NZ whinging, since which they have won back to back world cups, doesn’t serve to reinforce your argument.


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[Derpus]

There are ways and means of making comments about the referee, cheika’s table slamming etc is counter productive, feeds a false narrative about the quality of the officiating of the game and, most importantly, is really bad for the image of rugby union in Australia. That you have to go back to 2007 for an example of NZ whinging, since which they have won back to back world cups, doesn’t serve to reinforce your argument.


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Hansen had a crack at the ref the other week...

 

[cyclopath]

There are ways and means of making comments about the referee, cheika’s table slamming etc is counter productive, feeds a false narrative about the quality of the officiating of the game and, most importantly, is really bad for the image of rugby union in Australia. That you have to go back to 2007 for an example of NZ whinging, since which they have won back to back world cups, doesn’t serve to reinforce your argument.


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It makes no difference to my point. They've basically won everything since about 2008. Not much to complain about. Except anytime someone looked sideways at Richie.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Point taken, I knew what you actually meant.

Ireland got an apology of their own a few years back too.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/mar/15/six-nations-irb-apologises-ireland-wales

Indeed, but Ireland should have won that game, even with the mistakes by the referee, but they failed to take their chances and that was the overwhelming narrative on the Irish rugby fora at the time.



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[the plastic paddy]

Hansen had a crack at the ref the other week.

Cheika spends the whole game slamming the table at every decision that doesn’t go Australia’s way. That you can’t see how counter productive that is amazes me. Does he not know that there is a camera on him?


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[Grant NZ]

Except anytime someone looked sideways at Richie.

What the FUCK did you just say about Richie?

 

[KOB1987]

I find 80 point rugby bloody boring. I'd say the most exciting game I've ever seen was our 99 semi and not a single try was scored. Super rugby has mostly test calibre attack and nowhere near test calibre defense.

If you go back far enough, trys were worth zero, so they haven't always been a point of obsession.

Just out of curiosity, back when try’s were worth zero why did they even have them?