Wallabies vs Ireland - 3rd test - Saturday 23rd June 2018 - Sydney Football Stadium

[barbarian]

I actually thought Timu did well ball in hand. He made one very strong run early (I think in that first phase of play that led to the try) but he gave away too many penalties.

I'm not out on Timu yet either. He's a ball in hand player and these games haven't suited him at all. His discipline was a problem in Melbourne though.

I'd consider shifting him to the bench and starting Tui who is more of a grinder. We can then utilise Timu's ballrunning better in the final 30 where it seems we get a bit more possession.

I also wouldn't discard Rodda - our lineout was great on Saturday and he put in another good shift.

Keep Tupou on the bench as well, his impact has been outstanding but I still want the experience and class of Kepu for the first 50 or so against Furlong and co.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm certainly not cold on Timu either. I just think a couple of changes are likely for the final test and he may be one to lose his spot.

Alternatively Cheika could go with the same lineup ex Genia and back them to improve on game 2.

 

[TSR]

I’d be happy to see Cheika retain the whole side, with just changed made where required for injury.

I believe Rodda calls for the Reds, in which case bring Arnold straight in for Coleman and leave Simmons to finish the game. If we want more from Tupou, just bring him on a bit earlier.

The players were really good two games ago, then slipped back on the weekend. Back them to bounce back.

 

[Ignoto]

It doesn't. It addresses another issue being weakness in the lineout.

ESPN has us at 11/12 on Saturday night and 13/16 last weekend.

Then 10/10 across two matches against the Darkness last year when Hanigan (with Moore and TPN throwing), 7/11 against SA and 7/8 against the Argies.

Looking at defensive involvement.

Timu in his two test has made 14 and 7 tackles.
Hanigan when playing the AB's x 2, Saffers and then Argies was; 8, 9, 6, 10

So, I feel this whole 'Hanigan' will strengthen us come lineout time is a bit of a furphy and then further weakens us where there's possibly more chance to have an impact i.e. general play.

 

[Rock Lobster]

Agree 100% Ignoto. Timu would be stiff to lose his spot in the starting 15 and it would be outrageous if he was left out of the 23, especially if Hanigan is the one to take his spot.

 

[Braveheart81]

Jake Gordon has joined the squad.

 

[wamberal]

I’d be happy to see Cheika retain the whole side, with just changed made where required for injury. The players were really good two games ago, then slipped back on the weekend. Back them to bounce back.

They were playing a very much better Irish side in the second game. We can win with the right side, playing the right game, with a lot of intensity, patience, and composure.

 

[Rebels3]

Intensity is the key word, players need to bring some hurt just like the first game otherwise Ireland will win the gain line battle again. Hopefully Foley brings a better game than he did on Sat. I haven't watched the replay but at the ground he looked fairly ordinary. A specific decision to take a quick tap in a kickable zone, or an area where we could put on another lineout/driving maul and then deciding to run a line into the only area with 6/7 Irish players and very little support had me stumped. Rugby intelligence 10dumb

 

[cyclopath]

I'm not out on Timu yet either. He's a ball in hand player and these games haven't suited him at all. His discipline was a problem in Melbourne though.

I'd consider shifting him to the bench and starting Tui who is more of a grinder. We can then utilise Timu's ballrunning better in the final 30 where it seems we get a bit more possession.

I also wouldn't discard Rodda - our lineout was great on Saturday and he put in another good shift.

Keep Tupou on the bench as well, his impact has been outstanding but I still want the experience and class of Kepu for the first 50 or so against Furlong and co.
.

This makes some sense. Timu deserves another go, but I don't mind switching the thinking a bit here.

 

[Up the Guts]

I'm not out on Timu yet either. He's a ball in hand player and these games haven't suited him at all. His discipline was a problem in Melbourne though.

I'd consider shifting him to the bench and starting Tui who is more of a grinder. We can then utilise Timu's ballrunning better in the final 30 where it seems we get a bit more possession.

I also wouldn't discard Rodda - our lineout was great on Saturday and he put in another good shift.

Keep Tupou on the bench as well, his impact has been outstanding but I still want the experience and class of Kepu for the first 50 or so against Furlong and co.
.

Timu could also play in the wider channels once the game opens up in the end, may find his ball carrying is more effective coming off the bench when he doesn’t have to play as tight.

 

[RedsHappy]

We can shuffle the squad as much as we like but if our work at the breakdown (ie do way better than a singular reliance on Popock especially as the Irish have worked out how to (mostly) effectively counter him), tactical kicking and from hand, and lowering Sexton's 3-point opportunities don't improve, we will likely lose again.

If that happens (a) a 1-2 loss on home soil will be a vast disappointment/turn-off for casual Wallaby fans coming after the England series humiliation and (b) the lingering impression post 2015 that we can only beat Tier 1 teams when they rarely have off days will be buttressed big time.

I was full of praise for the Wallabies Test 1 v Ireland, the coaches seemed to have learnt something in 2 years, but we reverted badly into many old loser habits in Test 2 the moment Ireland controlled possession, played their impressive low error rate long phases game, and won the gain line contest hands down.

As a rusted-on, hope springs eternal for me, but we have to assemble and be able to execute the critical skills against Tier 1 competition or our mutation into a 'promising' Tier 2 rugby nation will be affirmed both now and for the foreseeable future.

 

[RedsHappy]

It doesn't. It addresses another issue being weakness in the lineout. Timu did not have a good game.

Anyway, I started Tui at 6.

Whatever his qualities and future potential in green and gold, you are absolutely right. It's arguable that the 3 (?) penalties Timu conceded and Sexton's delighted 3-pointers from them may well have cost us the game.

 

[Zero_Cool]

So I just want to say this situation with Jake Gordon (or Joe Powell, depending on who comes off the bench) is EXACTLY what my critsisum of Cheika has been about, he has had ample opportunity to blood one of our young halfbacks, but has refused to do so. Genia is world class, Phipps is clearly a mile behind, but maybe Powell or Gordon could be but instead they'll be thrown into the fire of a deciding test against the Six Nations Champions. While the saying is the hottest fires forge the strongest steel, I'd rather Powell/Gordon have a half dozen games under their belt and be shaping up to be a genuine test quality half back and provide us an option going forwards. This is not a situation like at fly half where maybe we don't have the cattle, we have a number of good half back options Cheika is just picking his favoured few and it could now cost us a series against a, very good opposition.

 

[Froggy]

For mine, I would start Tupou, particularly if Coleman is out, desperately need some big, hard hitting hard running guys. While I think Latu has been better than BPA both tests, with TT at LHP and his familiarity with BPA, for mine I don't change hooker. Assuming Coleman is out Arnold to come straight in for him. I would leave Timu out (no, not forever, but for this test), start Tui at 6, move Pocock to 8, have Samu on the bench and go back to 5/3. The only change for the backs is Phipps in to 9, I would have Gordon on the bench but it will probably be Powell, and my extra back to come in would be TK.

Yes BR, I'm leaving Phipps, Foley and Beale there, who of course single handedly lost the second test for us. Happily, the penalties and turnovers weren't a problem

 

[Braveheart81]

So I just want to say this situation with Jake Gordon (or Joe Powell, depending on who comes off the bench) is EXACTLY what my critsisum of Cheika has been about, he has had ample opportunity to blood one of our young halfbacks, but has refused to do so. Genia is world class, Phipps is clearly a mile behind, but maybe Powell or Gordon could be but instead they'll be thrown into the fire of a deciding test against the Six Nations Champions. While the saying is the hottest fires forge the strongest steel, I'd rather Powell/Gordon have a half dozen games under their belt and be shaping up to be a genuine test quality half back and provide us an option going forwards. This is not a situation like at fly half where maybe we don't have the cattle, we have a number of good half back options Cheika is just picking his favoured few and it could now cost us a series against a, very good opposition.

Which tests should Cheika have sacrificed by selecting inferior players so they had more test experience now?

Would selecting new players to play a while ago who were less up to the task than they are now have helped them be ready to play this weekend?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Some interesting stats from news.com.au:

Wallabies halfbacks’ success rates

WILL GENIA (at No.9): 80 Tests, won 44 (56 per cent).

With Foley: 25 Tests, won 13 (52 per cent)

NICK PHIPPS (at No.9): 28 Tests, won 13 (46 per cent).

With Foley: 18 Tests, won 7 (39 per cent)

That's quite a step down when Phipps/Foley combine (if I'm reading it correctly). Would be interesting to see the makeup of the opposition in each of those situations - I assume most of the ABs tests would have used the Genia/Foley combo.

 

[KOB1987]

So I just want to say this situation with Jake Gordon (or Joe Powell, depending on who comes off the bench) is EXACTLY what my critsisum of Cheika has been about, he has had ample opportunity to blood one of our young halfbacks, but has refused to do so. Genia is world class, Phipps is clearly a mile behind, but maybe Powell or Gordon could be but instead they'll be thrown into the fire of a deciding test against the Six Nations Champions. While the saying is the hottest fires forge the strongest steel, I'd rather Powell/Gordon have a half dozen games under their belt and be shaping up to be a genuine test quality half back and provide us an option going forwards. This is not a situation like at fly half where maybe we don't have the cattle, we have a number of good half back options Cheika is just picking his favoured few and it could now cost us a series against a, very good opposition.

Did you miss the bit where Cheika drafted Powell into the Wallabies squad when most people had never heard of him?

 

[wamberal]

Coaches are allowed to pick whoever they want to. Is there a coach anywhere in the world who does not choose the best team that he can?



Why oh why would Cheika deliberately ignore certain players? Why? Why? Why?

 

[Brumby Runner]

It doesn't. It addresses another issue being weakness in the lineout. Timu did not have a good game.

Anyway, I started Tui at 6.

BH, what were the lineout stats for the game? I seem to remember a couple of steals by the Wallabies (Rodda with one - 5m from our tryline - and maybe with both?) and not sure if there were any losses on Wallaby throw. The lineout was much improved on the first test, I believe, and I don't really think there is an issue now that needs to be addresses at the expense of a more aggressive player in open play.

I have to say that I will have palpitations if both Simmons and Hanigan are on the bench. I concede that Rob was an improvement on his usual performances, but there can be no reason to replace Timu or anyone else with Ned Hanigan. Except of course for the coach.

 

[Brumby Runner]

ESPN has us at 11/12 on Saturday night and 13/16 last weekend.

Then 10/10 across two matches against the Darkness last year when Hanigan (with Moore and TPN throwing), 7/11 against SA and 7/8 against the Argies.

Looking at defensive involvement.

Timu in his two test has made 14 and 7 tackles.
Hanigan when playing the AB's x 2, Saffers and then Argies was; 8, 9, 6, 10

So, I feel this whole 'Hanigan' will strengthen us come lineout time is a bit of a furphy and then further weakens us where there's possibly more chance to have an impact i.e. general play.

IIRC, Mostert ate the Wallabies lineout, including the guru, for breakfast in that game. I also seem to recall Rory Arnold & Co getting on top of Mostere at lineout time for the Brumbies subsequently.