Wallabies vs England, Sydney, 3rd Test, 25 June @ 8:00pm

[Joe Blow]

Slim
I think Fardy is a very good rugby player that has served Australia extremely well in the last couple of years.

BUT overall in this series, I think he has been poor

I reckon that is a bit rough Scrubber. He has had some errors in every match but his high work rate and involvement in the game suggests that it is bound to happen.
He also ran pretty well with the ball and contributed to the lineout. I cannot think of anyone else in Australian rugby that comes close to him at 6.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I reckon that is a bit rough Scrubber. He has had some errors in every match but his high work rate and involvement in the game suggests that it is bound to happen.
He also ran pretty well with the ball and contributed to the lineout. I cannot think of anyone else in Australian rugby that comes close to him at 6.

Mate you are probably right about being the best 6 still.

I particularly was "off" him after test 2 with I think 3 penalties and 3 lost balls. Just way too many errors.

No doubt he will wear the 6 jersey when the RC comes around.

 

[Slim 293]

I think Fardy was overall pretty good, but in the last two tests dropped off in the last 10 mins...........

Last year McCalman would usually come on in the last 10-15 to keep up the workrate.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I think Fardy was overall pretty good, but in the last two tests dropped off in the last 10 mins.....

Last year McCalman would usually come on in the last 10-15 to keep up the workrate.

And a pretty good strategy, which begs the question, what was the strategy for the use of Palu? Yes the injury to Simmons and Skrlton really struggling with the pace at the 55 minute mark forced MC's hand somewhat.

Or was it simply more a case of giving Wycliff an opportunity.

 

[mark_s]

The 3rd test loss (like the series) really came down to 3 things:

1. Goal kicking. Farrell missed one attempt on the weekend out of 10 attempts (and 3 all series). Foley missed 3 (out of 9) on the weekend (and 6 all series). Foley kicked at 63% over the 3 tests (Farrell 88%). If Foley could have matched Farrell (or been 80%+) we probably win the series 2-1 even if everything else is the same. Plus we might have gone for more penalty goals. We need better kicking performances to win tests against top tier teams.

2. Ill discipline. We gave away 33 penalties over the 3 tests. England gave away only 24. We managed to piss off each of the 3 refs, even though we had more possession. There are many culprits here.

3. Errors. 3 examples that really hurt us from the weekend: not finding touch from penalties, Phipps shooting the ball back at Folau's feet and the lineout overthrow on our own line. The latter two directly lead to English tries. In test 1 we also gave the English a soft try. Again plenty of culprits here in both backs and forwards.

Cheika has some work to do before TRC.

Congrats to the English. They were smarter and better in all 3 tests.

 

[KOB1987]

OK I've had enough of the Wallabies Negativity Thread for now, I'm off to chat about the Tahs games. See you all for the RC.

 

[The Snout]

Plenty of good analysis done already. Just my 2 cents and I'll keep it simple.

Snout's 4 point plan to turn the Duds to Studs :

1) We need a kicking coach and program for the Wallabies and all Super Rugby Teams. All halfbacks, 10s, wingers and fullbacks to be able to kick at a high quality. Place and out of hand. Placement of kicks etc.

2) We need a scrum program for the Wallabies and all Super Rugby Teams.

3) Exit Strategy. Giving away 3 points isn't one. Minimize penalties here, make it a KPI for players.

4) Passing. You pass a hell of a lot more than kick, core focus needs to be on getting it out and in front. Probably doesn't need a national program but it needs it's own focus.

We don't have the depth in Oz rugby so we need to be smart and make the most of who we have* through good coaching. (*Having said that, I wouldn't mind Phipps getting the arse until he learns to pass better)


Disappointed at the loss. But my bigger disappointment is a forum of fans here can generally see the coaching that is needed. And this county has plenty of cross code coaches available. So why aren't we using our natural resources to make Australia Rugby skills better ?

We can dig truckloads of dirt in this country but we can't dig into a Yellow Pages and find a kicking coach in a nation where one kicking code is AFL and in another we are the current Asian Champions.

 

[ForceFan]

An insight into the kicking problems with Australian Rugby.

In the Super Rugby pre-season 2 years ago I attended a training session to watch the Western Force and was surprised to see ALL of the Backs in the squad being schooled on the basic fundamentals of how to kick a rugby ball.

This was the pre-season after the Honey Badger had so badly failed with a clearance kick from beside the goal posts resulting in a try to the opposition.

It seemed that ALMOST ALL of the Backs had NEVER been taught how to kick a rugby ball properly, had no idea how to do it with any level of control over length and direction.

These players are from grass roots rugby backgrounds from all over Australia as well as NZ and RSA. I don't think Super Rugby or National coaches should be teaching elite athletes such fundamental skills.

They all could pass a rugby ball but had never been shown how to properly kick a rugby ball. There was a good deal of this pre-season spent on developing this skill. Dane H-P has obviously benefited from this hard work.

There has also been a huge amount of effort put in over the past 12 months to improve the Western Force's kicking on goal. Understandably as 2015 was a disaster.

The benefits have shown in the kicking by Peter Grant (16/20 - 80%), Jono Lance (10/10 - 100%), Ian Prior (10/11 - 91%) and Ben Tapuai (3/3 - 100%).
They have averaged 89% of shots on goal (39 from 44).

The fact that there have been so few shots on goal is another story - but kickers are there to kick the ball between the posts.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think there is pretty clearly a gap between the players who religiously practice from a young age in their own time and those who don't.

You read the stories about Dan Carter having a set of goalposts in the garden on his family property from the age of 8 and then work out why he's such an amazing goalkicker.

I bet you would find that guys like Owen Farrell spent hours practicing goal kicking in the park as a kid whereas our best players probably spent hours playing touch footy or something that whilst good will never hone a specific skill to the highest level.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We can dig truckloads of dirt in this country but we can't dig into a Yellow Pages and find a kicking coach in a nation where one kicking code is AFL and in another we are the current Asian Champions.

I've got my doubts about either code being able to contribute but I'll stick to AFL.
It is painfully apparent that they couldnt teach Folau to kick in the 2 years they had him.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Just on the AFL. Has anyone seen the standard of kicking in that competition lately? I wouldn't bank on the answers being there. On the sidelines of my boy's Aussie Rules games on the weekend nearly every week I hear a lot of the parents bemoaning how poorly elite level players kick the ball. There are some kids in the U/13's who do it better and more consistently.

 

[Quick Hands]

Plenty of research in America. They've had specialist kicking coaches on NFL teams for years. Note that they treat punt kicking as a separate skill from place kicking - different players fulfil each specialised role. They've broken each activity down to smaller parts and fone right into the biomechanical forces at work in each. The research is all there as are the coaches - that's where I'd be looking.

Remember how much the Australian fielding improved when John Buchanan brought in a specialist fielding coach from US baseball.

 

[Ignoto]

Is there any innate difference between place kicking between Union and League? If I remember correctly there's some difference between the shapes of the balls, but would that have a massive impact?

Anyway, I raise this because constantly I see guys like Thurston etc being able to consistently bang their conversions especially from the sideline. You only need to look back to last years final and Thurston won it from such a kick.

Is it really that difficult that we can't just pinch their kicking coaches for two or three sessions a week with all our kickers, primary and back ups?

 

[Braveheart81]

Is there any innate difference between place kicking between Union and League? If I remember correctly there's some difference between the shapes of the balls, but would that have a massive impact?

Anyway, I raise this because constantly I see guys like Thurston etc being able to consistently bang their conversions especially from the sideline. You only need to look back to last years final and Thurston won it from such a kick.

Is it really that difficult that we can't just pinch their kicking coaches for two or three sessions a week with all our kickers, primary and back ups?

Thurston is a bit of a freak. The amount of hook he gets on his kicks is hard to replicate, not ideal and not very coachable. Also makes conversions from the right touch line incredibly tough although to his credit he gets a lot of them.

League kickers are better from inside the 22 because conversions are 90 per cent of their shots at goal. Take them 40 metres out and they miss far more often as it's not something they practice anywhere near as much.

 

[Gnostic]

These players are from grass roots rugby backgrounds from all over Australia as well as NZ and RSA. I don't think Super Rugby or National coaches should be teaching elite athletes such fundamental skills.

How long have I been harping on about specialist coaching and coaching general? I have reluctantly admitted that coaches at Super Level don't have the time to spend on basic skills, but then we have to ask where do the players learn the skills since out of school they are more and more moving into elite squads which don't have that time either apparently. The NRC is not a development competition.

So if the players aren't taught these skills in the EPS and Super sides then when do they learn?

I am sick of seeing players derided for failures in their skills execution when it is obvious that they haven't received adequate training. Even if they spend the time a Carter, Wilkinson or Farrell practicing on their own, if they have errors in technique it could well make the issues worse rather than better.

As a side it was mentioned by the Barnes in commentary that Farrell spends at least 40 minutes a day kicking.

 

[wamberal]

They do use a different ball, dunno what difference that makes.


Their code is also far more competitive, in every sense of the world, from junior days right through.


A kicker who cannot kick would not go anywhere. Survival of the fittest.

 

[Braveheart81]

They do use a different ball, dunno what difference that makes.


Their code is also far more competitive, in every sense of the world, from junior days right through.


A kicker who cannot kick would not go anywhere. Survival of the fittest.

I don't think it is that different. Most kickers seem to be around the low to mid 70s, a couple 80% and above and a bunch in the 60s. I don't think that is overly different than the rugby union goal kicking percentages.

 

[Scotty]

I just realised how Eddie came up with his game plan to beat the Wallabies - he simply watched the Tahs vs Highlanders semi from last year where Cheika was out coached and Foley struggled under pressure.

 

[The torpedo]

They do use a different ball, dunno what difference that makes.

Having a google around it appears that the league ball is meant to be easier to pass, while the rugby ball is meant to be easier to kick.

Bigger trouble for us if that is so.

Also, both Steeden & Gilbert are owned by Gray-Nicolls (cricket bat manufacturer)

 

[John S]

In the washup to a 3 - 0 whitewash at home, I defy anyone now to defend the selections of Horne, Skelton and Palu. And before I get accused by raving Tahs' fans, I am not advocating Brumbies specifically to replace them.

I really think Nabuli (REDS) should have been given a chance until someone like Tomane is back fit again.

The second row is looking pretty good to me with Coleman and Arnold coming through to back up Simmons, Horwill and Carter. Staniforth will also come to the top with more Super rugby behind him.

No 8 has to be Holloway when back from injury. In the meantime, while Poey is out then McMahon did more than an adequate job last night.

Those three players should have donned the Wallabies' jersey for the last time. Others in doubt due consistent poor form are Moore, Phipps, Foley and Kuridrani.

Lots of potential there for big improvements come TRC.

Funnily enough, I agree with you on chopping Horne, Skelton and Palu.