Wallabies vs England, Sydney, 3rd Test, 25 June @ 8:00pm
- Thread starter The torpedo
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The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
DHP could probably fill this role. Surprised we didn't use him for exits out of the 22.
Ah yes, once again Phipps and Foley cop all the flak. As predictable as night following day.
We scored 40 points. Fourty. Anyone talking about deficiencies in our attacking backline is a numpty.
Foley and To'omua's clearance kicking was poor, and one of the three reasons we lost IMO. But what's the answer? Lilo's is no better, neither is Quade's. DHP actually looked our best kicker.
But where is the talk of our disciple? Gave away too many soft penalties in our own half which kept England in the game. Fardy and Skelton the main culprits.
What about our lineout? Was the worst it has been all series, and the fault lies with Stephen Moore. His throwing was really off last night, and contributed to two English tries.
The 'Nick Phipps can't pass' thing is a red herring, a distraction from what actually happened. And it's wrong- he had his best game of the series last night. We scored 40 points, after all.
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We scored 40 points. Fourty. Anyone talking about deficiencies in our attacking backline is a numpty.
Foley and To'omua's clearance kicking was poor, and one of the three reasons we lost IMO. But what's the answer? Lilo's is no better, neither is Quade's. DHP actually looked our best kicker.
But where is the talk of our disciple? Gave away too many soft penalties in our own half which kept England in the game. Fardy and Skelton the main culprits.
What about our lineout? Was the worst it has been all series, and the fault lies with Stephen Moore. His throwing was really off last night, and contributed to two English tries.
The 'Nick Phipps can't pass' thing is a red herring, a distraction from what actually happened. And it's wrong- he had his best game of the series last night. We scored 40 points, after all.
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^^^^^^^^
Re clearing kicks - I was sitting at the south end of the field, directly behind for several Aus clearing kicks - looking at how they set up (I think it was 2 from Foley, 1 from DHP and maybe 1 from To'omua) - only DHP kicked it out and none really looked like "getting it out" was the plan; it looked more like they were aiming for around halfway and whether it went out or not was immaterial. Just from the angles they set up. I don't know, it just looked odd, but ground level straight behind the player gives you a great view of where they are aiming. I couldn't understand why that would be a tactic unless you knew you were going to kick it 15-20m into their half. It's not something I've appreciated when watching on TV from another angle.
Re clearing kicks - I was sitting at the south end of the field, directly behind for several Aus clearing kicks - looking at how they set up (I think it was 2 from Foley, 1 from DHP and maybe 1 from To'omua) - only DHP kicked it out and none really looked like "getting it out" was the plan; it looked more like they were aiming for around halfway and whether it went out or not was immaterial. Just from the angles they set up. I don't know, it just looked odd, but ground level straight behind the player gives you a great view of where they are aiming. I couldn't understand why that would be a tactic unless you knew you were going to kick it 15-20m into their half. It's not something I've appreciated when watching on TV from another angle.
Dismal Pillock
Michael Lynagh (62)
He will come, fear ye not.
He will come, fear ye not.
Gatekeeper's Lodge at Chateau Pilloque?
T
TOCC
Guest
Just because people can't provide an immediate solution to an obvious
weakness or flaw in the team doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it. A large reason the Wallabies conceded 40 points is because they were always in their own red-zone as a result of poor clearing kicks.
This is rubbish, the lineout was poor and was always going to be, we even had a discussion about this before the match, the line-out was always going to go poorly because Cheika selected only 2 line-out jumpers, this was then exacerbated when Simmons went off with injury. One of the two lost line-outs was a good throw but Coleman just completely missed the ball, it went straight through his bread basket. I can't remember the details of the second lost line-out, i will have to watch the game again.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...test-25-june-8-00pm.16850/page-27#post-856137
He can pass, just makes too many crucial errors.. Either knocking it on, getting caught with the ball, or throwing an occasional erratic pass, his error rate is simply too high. Yes he was placed under a lot of pressure at the breakdown so its not all his fault, but at the same time, he made poor decisions and errors when there was no pressure.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
When it comes to clearance kicking Lilo and Quade are better. Miles better. They kick longer and can actually find touch. To'omua was better then Foley last night too - he actually found touch with a nice clearance kick early on.
I agree with the rest though, Phipps I didn't think was that bad tonight - certainly not as poor as game 2 - could be a shit load better though.
Not sure you can blame Moore for the line-out stuff up, I think it's poor tactics more then anything, Simmons going on injured really hurt us. Line-outs are usually collective fuck-ups.
It annoys me that these issues are pretty obvious for most posters on this forum before going into the Test, so you'd imagine the bloody professional coaching staff of Australia would have some sort of plan to mitigate the negative effects - they didn't. And it blew up in their faces.
3 games in a god dam row. That is not the fault of a few ill-discipline. You could argue that in the first game but not 3 in a row.
3 losses in the same fashion indicates systemic problems. Poor management, poor strategy, poor tactic. Stop telling players "they need to execute better" they don't have the skill to do it consistency, they need a different tactics.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
Didn't say we shouldn't talk about it. We should!
But I'm not really sure there is much more to say than 'they need to get better at kicking'.
I don't disagree. Cheika also needs to take plenty of blame. Will need to watch the throw on our line again, but it looked like an overthrow to me and I think Cheika admitted as much in the post-game presser. The other was a throw to the back which Moore didn't get high enough and Itoje picked it off.
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Viking
Mark Ella (57)
We know our primary kicker is poor. Foley. This is not a new discovery, it is a known issue. Their are other kicking options available, their are other players who can kick that can be injected into the team.
So no. we don't NEED to get better at kicking. It would be very helpful but we can easily keep Foley and work around the problem.
DHP - use him more for clearance kicks.
To'omua - use him more for clearance kicks.
Frisby - use him more for box kicks, doesn't even have to start he can play the last 30mins and we'll have another good kicker
Morahon - Over Horne, same as above - doesn't even have to start can come on later and we got ourselves another kicking option.
Phipps - Not renowned for kicking but when Foley is under so much pressure why not box kick it out - surely you can do one a bloody game.
Folau - He can kick the ball out, you could use him once or twice to relieve pressure off Foley - obviously for clearing kicks only.
There are so many god damn options that would take the pressure off Foley but absolutely nothing was done.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
He's coming......................I can see him in the mountains........................................
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Sorry to disagree. The ability to kick out of hand is an indispensable skill for a fly-half at this level. There is no viable option if we want to beat the best. None.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
So no other option but to drop Foley?
See, I think he can kick well enough not for it to be a problem. The problem was pressure magnifying the issue. Relieve the pressure and his kicking is alright. Not fantastic, but well enough.
The reason I'm pointing this out and not arguing for a replacement is because I highly doubt Cheika is going to drop him. I just don't see it happening.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Oh the typical - you're on a forum you can't have a valid opinion response.
I don't remember throwing any stones at players - I was talking about a coach that has recognised problems or if he has he either hasn't tried to or been unable to fix them.
If you are happy with the level of coaching and the result of 0-3 home series result vs England - then you can have your opinion.
Personally I think the coaching of the team, selections and management of the bench looked to be very poor over the last 3 weeks, and I am also entitled to my opinion.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Quade on the bench. Doesn't qualify. Throws Phipps away in favour of two Queenslanders when Stirzaker is the clear next choice.
What's not to deride about that?
If i was concerned about the opinions of some of the peanuts here, I wouldn't bother posting. If they don't want my derision, they can stop posting rubbish.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Yeah. It would be a real surprise if a midfield similar to Nonu and Smith worked wouldn't it.
But if you think we are in a good place to beat the all blacks then go stick your head back in the sand and think happy thoughts.
I'm sure you did the same after our appalling performance due to basic game management errors in the World Cup quarters.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Yep saw it at the time and you are right - some dodgy calls and plays be the refs went against us. Moore definitely reacted to the touchie 'pushing' (more of a touch than a push) him.
I think those two incidents should garner apologies from the refs. One was simply ignoring the laws and the other interfering with play and both had an affect on the game.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Frisby is the clear next choice given he is on bench and Stirzacker is not. Cheika stating in the press conference that Genia will return for the Rugby Championship - so he's in favour of Stirzaker also.
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