Wallabies v Wales

[mark_s]

George Smith's play - I have no doubt that if Richie had made some of those plays, there would be screaming on here about how much of a cheat he is.

Looks like no one has taken the bait MR.

 

[Ash]

What MR said is right though, sort of, despite the fishing. Not all of Smith's steals were legal, but the first few definitely were. There was one blatant one where he ripped it on the ground, stood up and then passed it. But by then the Australian opensides had dominated so much at the breakdown that they got the benefit of the calls.

However, they did not do the McCaw trick of hit, spin around the edge, and flop on the wrong side. How he manages to make it look to the ref that he didn't spin around the ruck is magical. Totally illegal, but like all openside play, it's done until they get pinged off the park for it.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

George Smith's play - I have no doubt that if Richie had made some of those plays, there would be screaming on here about how much of a cheat he is.

Looks like no one has taken the bait MR.

It was only half fishing to be honest. Smith is still truly a rugby great in my opinion, but like all opensides, he plays to the edge of the law and often, right through it. A couple of plays on that clip were blatant, but many were of course legal. This is the same as the way McCaw plays. The constant calling of McCaw a cheat round here gets on my goat because as much I can appreciate how bloody frustrating it is (he doesn't play for my proviince or S14 team so I too have yelled at it), the fact Smith plays a simliar game is blatantly over looked.

Re Pocock - he plays a very simliar game to a young McCaw, potentially a great in the making. I have no doubt that as he gets on a bit, he too will change his game to be slightly more "controversial", shall we say?

 

[mark_s]

Fair enough - I too call Smith every name under the sun when he somes to Sydney for a S14 game. There are no problems with the loose forwards pushing the rules (or calling the refs bluff), my issue is that the refs become gun shy at penalising indiscretions that they see or constantly give the benefit of the doubt to one team.

An example is the hit and spin that Ash mentioned below - Gagger put up a good video of this from the Eden park test this year when McCaw did it right in front of the assistant ref. Simiiarly the Tokyo test when Lawrence was penalising the All blacks loose trio and giving them constant wanrings, but was gun shy about taking the next step.

Of course, the Aus scrum survived on this benefit doubt from 2002 to 2004 when Bill Young was loosehead so I guess what goes around comes around.

BTW - one thing I know about McCaw, as soon as he started getting pinged for one thing he will just modify his technique to start doing something else to achieve the same outcome - the sign of a very very good no. 7.

 

[Scotty]

I have no issue with McCaw at all. He is not a dirty player and that is the only problem I have with some players. IMO he isn't doing his job if he isn't pushing the boundaries.

Of course I do have an issue with the referees that don't pick him up when he or others blatantly step over the boundries, but that is hardly his fault, is it?

We have been extremely lucky to have witnessed a player such as McCaw, who will go down as one of the best to have played the game, IMO.

 

[Gagger]

. A couple of plays on that clip were blatant,

Which ones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXLYBa5YIqw

 

[mark_s]

Not sure if everyone has seen this already but there is a blog over at the roar with post game footage from the change rooms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNktDLK2r0

Its interesting viewing particualry on a Friday arvo while you count down to the office xmas party.

 

[Newb]

Not sure if everyone has seen this already but there is a blog over at the roar with post game footage from the change rooms:

Its interesting viewing particualry on a Friday arvo while you count down to the office xmas party.

that is some good footage.  nice way to end it with KB (Kurtley Beale) on the eskie.  the drop goal king looks positively svelte too.

and i hope rocky speaks up a bit more when talking to the refs ffs.  what the fark was he saying?

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for posting that mark_s. It warms the heart of an old rugby tragic.

 

[Gagger]

I repeat

. A couple of plays on that clip were blatant,

Which ones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXLYBa5YIqw

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I repeat

. A couple of plays on that clip were blatant,

Which ones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXLYBa5YIqw

Alright calm down, not all of us have the ability to look at youtube at work.

The last 2 - although, now being pushed on closer inspection they may not be as blatant as I first thought! In the first one, he clearly isn't on his feet when he first goes for the ball, and if he was, the Welsh cover defence may well have been there. In the second one, he's in an offside position when he takes the ball (although, the welsh guy does hand him the ball so I retract that statement).

Happy?

 

[Cutter]

This is not a criticism of you MR, more an observation of all humans' failings. We consider ourselves rational, but where we are born and our environment can cause two humans to watch the same thing and see it in two different ways. Two blokes sitting together, one wearing a black jumper and one wearing a gold jumper, yet their prejudices and loyalties can convince their eyes they have seen different things.

I thought those Smith pilfers were all ok. I consider myself to be rational. I wonder whether I'd have thought the same thing if it was McCaw doing the pilfering? I hope so.

 

[Gagger]

Excuse accepted.

So we're agreed that rather than two of them being "blatant", you can clutch at straws on one of them.

.....which obviously goes to prove beyond question that George Smith, G&GR Wallaby of the year, is a saint and Richie McCaw is a fucking cheat.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Excuse accepted.

So we're agreed that rather than two of them being "blatant", you can clutch at straws on one of them.

.....which obviously goes to prove beyond question that George Smith, G&GR Wallaby of the year, is a saint and Richie McCaw is a fucking cheat.

yes yes, fair enough, I deserve a bit of cop as perhaps I should have studied it a bit more closely before throwing out accusations!

Although I respect the work done on this site by one and all, and of course the insight and perspective of the posters, I respectfully take your G & Gr Wallaby of the year, and raise you not one, but 2 (including the latest), IRB player of the year awards... They wouldnt award that to a fucking cheat... now would they? :nta:

(the fact that I think he shouldn't have won is irrelevant...)

 

[cyclopath]

Excuse accepted.

So we're agreed that rather than two of them being "blatant", you can clutch at straws on one of them.

.....which obviously goes to prove beyond question that George Smith, G&GR Wallaby of the year, is a saint and Richie McCaw is a fucking cheat.

yes yes, fair enough, I deserve a bit of cop as perhaps I should have studied it a bit more closely before throwing out accusations!

Although I respect the work done on this site by one and all, and of course the insight and perspective of the posters, I respectfully take your G & Gr Wallaby of the year, and raise you not one, but 2 (including the latest), IRB player of the year awards... They wouldnt award that to a fucking cheat... now would they? :nta:

(the fact that I think he shouldn't have won is irrelevant...)

Fair point, MR, but you don't want to make a habit of assuming the IRB know what the hell they're talking about all the time, do you? Does Shane Williams ring a little scarlet bell?

 

[Gagger]

Excuse accepted.

So we're agreed that rather than two of them being "blatant", you can clutch at straws on one of them.

.....which obviously goes to prove beyond question that George Smith, G&GR Wallaby of the year, is a saint and Richie McCaw is a fucking cheat.

yes yes, fair enough, I deserve a bit of cop as perhaps I should have studied it a bit more closely before throwing out accusations!

Although I respect the work done on this site by one and all, and of course the insight and perspective of the posters, I respectfully take your G & Gr Wallaby of the year, and raise you not one, but 2 (including the latest), IRB player of the year awards... They wouldnt award that to a fucking cheat... now would they? :nta:

(the fact that I think he shouldn't have won is irrelevant...)

Exactly, as you've just pointed out, the IRB player of the Year award is now officially bankrupt and worthless, unlike the highly sought after G&GR Wallaby of the year, and soon to come, G&GR International Player of the Year.

What it does explain, is how the fuck McCaw gets away with so much of his cheating - a clear IRB conspiracy in which the over-apologetic kiwi, Paddy O'Brien, is a key figure.

 

[Lindommer]

...how the fuck McCaw gets away with so much of his cheating - a clear iRB conspiracy in which the over-apologetic Kiwi, Paddy O'Brien, is a key figure?

Simple. He's very fucking good; at cheating, that is. The best.

We've had very good breakaways at/on the ball in Australia in the past but St RtI is the absolute best in disrupting opponents' pill.

 

[Ash]

Oh come on, the one at 1:42 by Smith is obviously illegal. He was on the ground when he ripped it.

 

[cyclopath]

But he kind of bounces up so fast that he gives the impression of being up. McCaw also does this (before the spin, flop etc...).
Pocock is getting it. Brussow seems to time his entry to the breakdown to get over the ball really fast rather than doing it like Smith etc... Waugh is just like an angry warthog on steroids (my wife who spent 10 months in Africa assures me they are not to be messed with).
It is a fascinating aspect of play - to see such a number of really good 7s at the same time, all with slightly different styles, but all almost equally good is a treat.
McCaw deserves less vitriol - he is a legend of the game for mine, and although I scream at him as much as the next oppo fan, deep down it's all respect. Seems a bloody good bloke too.

 

[Newb]

i don't see too much wrong with them. ash, he probably did have a knee down still. if anything i think there are a couple where pocock/smith weren't the main tackler and are using hands in a possible ruck. since they weren't the tackler, they don't have rights to hold on in a ruck, but whether one has formed is questionable at best as i see it. still, i could see it getting blown up by several other refs who shall remain nameless.

for instance, pause at 0:26. digby just made the tackle and the welsh 14 is already on site. is that a ruck as pocock is ripping it out? possibly, but not really over the ball. at 0:45 hard to tell who is the main tackler, but pocock is probably a good choice so he has the rights there. same with george at 1:35. quade is the main tackler (gasp), but i think george steals it before a true ruck is formed. he holds on once the welsh arrive but by then it was his. if it was more of a struggle, i think other refs might have yelled "ruck formed! hands out now gold!".

that said, i don't really disagree with any of the calls. just pointing out a perspective with my 2c is all. just goes to show how dark the arts of the openside are. borderline cheating/genius at any moment.

on mccaw - he annoys me less and i respect him more than his teammates that aren't so skilled in pushing the envelope. the standing offsides, not-so-subtle interference on the highball, and the scrum tactics. now that i can get annoyed over.