Wallabies v Springboks - Suncorp, Brisbane, 10th September 2016
- Thread starter KOB1987
- Start date
- Status
John S
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Last I heard (around May) was he was out for four months following surgery - must be getting close to being able to get back training at least. Possibility for EOYT?
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Well the Hooper / Pocock combo has been a revelation and game breaker for us - NOT
But to be fair, I think Poey didn't play a couple of our last 6 losses.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
We were very competitive in the RWC Final. Do you give any credit to Hooper and Pocock?
Most critics did.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Indeed. The best way for elite sports teams to improve their performance is to improve their execution. Major change is easy: all it takes is a keyboard to come up with all the answers. Persistence means hard toil in the face of adversity, and often doing the same thing over and over again until you get better at it than the opposing elite athletes who are working equally hard to achieve the same thing.
Of course, qualities like persistence, hard work and toil aren't fashionable. Especially on the Internet, where everyone has the answer, even it they're all different answers.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Yeah I've stated numerous time they are our best 2/3 players with Folau. But at the end of the day they are both 7's.
Maybe we would have won if Hooper came off the bench and provided much needed impact in the last 30mins. Who knows?
But now we've lost 6 games in a row.... so it's probably a good idea to try something different.
Then there's Poey leaving next year, so probably a good idea to try out some-one else at 8.
I guess I'm the type of person who likes to try something new when the current thing isn't working.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
What a smug closing line. If only we all had your Solomon-esque wisdom.
Yes we've lost 6 games in a row, but people are suggesting that the Pooper are not the cause of these losses. Rather, the stats show that without the Pooper, we could have lost by even more.
Its not ideal and if Holloway / Higgers were fit I wouldn't utilise it, but compared to other alternatives it seems to be the strongest option (provided we can sort out the lineout but I think with 3 jumpers we should be fine given we have a competent thrower - Moore hasn't been up to scratch - and a lineout team that can consistently be selected and become accustomed to one another - so far Coleman, Douglas and Fardy haven't had this opportunity).
We have far more problems within the work-rate of our tight five, the penalties we concede, the set piece and general defensive structure (specifically on the edges and in the backline).
The Pooper is a lovely scapegoat but if anything its a symptom of the current woes the Wallabies are facing, not the cause.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Never said Pooper was the cause of the problem. So maybe try reading some of my other posts before jumping to conclusions.
You said it right there, provided we sort out the line-out. You know what will help the line-out - even if it's only a slight improvement - dropping the Pooper.
It's not like the "Pooper" is going to disappear. It just means it's saved for the last 35mins instead of the first 45mins - I find this better ending the game with the Pooper then starting it.
Imagine a fresh Hooper in the last 20mins of game carving it up against tired opposition.
So all you need is an 8 who can last 45mins. I'm sure Timani can last that long, McMahon is arguably just as good around the park and guess what; He's used regularly in the line-out so there's a point of difference there.
Do you guys really think playing two 7's is good for the long-term? Given we lost 6 in a row lets start thinking for the future. Developing some 8's to start with. Timani the prime candidate.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
In sport, as in life, that's generally the wrong approach. Success comes from getting better at things, not from trying new things. The best new thing to try is better execution. The worst way to improve execution is major change. With a few exceptions, where we simply lack players of sufficient quality, we pretty much know what our best team is. That team has to perform better.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I said before the last game that the negative media attention and comments were symbolic of a low or turning point. The last game was a marginal improvement on the previous one so perhaps I was right!
I agree with the posters who feel that some new combinations need an opportunity to develop, and existing ones to adapt to those around them. Which isn't to say that I necessarily agree with all of the selections, but I think it is foolish to make several changes to a team that is only young in terms of it's time together.
As such, my predicted changes to the starting lineup from the last game are:
- Mitchell and Hodge will occupy the wing positions
- Mumm will displace Fardy at 6
That's it.
I agree with the posters who feel that some new combinations need an opportunity to develop, and existing ones to adapt to those around them. Which isn't to say that I necessarily agree with all of the selections, but I think it is foolish to make several changes to a team that is only young in terms of it's time together.
As such, my predicted changes to the starting lineup from the last game are:
- Mitchell and Hodge will occupy the wing positions
- Mumm will displace Fardy at 6
That's it.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
It's neither a cause for those 6 losses, nor is that going to solve our problems.........
Particularly as Timani's Super Rugby form wasn't screaming out for test selection.
Picking those two for the 11 and 14 jumpers doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence. Which highlights just how short we are of traditional wingers in Super rugby ATM. I banged on a few years ago how many wingers the Tahs have gone through the last few years (about eight) and was promptly put in my place wingers are cheap and expendable. And now we need 'em we're short.
Leave Mumm on the bench, he's excellent cover for 4/5/6. The front row of second rowers, Coleman/Douglas/Arnold, need more game time.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Quite possibly. Our breakdown stats in the England tests were excellent. We didn't lose those games because of the Pooper. We lost them because of intermittently poor defence, and because we lacked cohesion in attack, and thus failed to convert an avalanche of possession into points. Foley also kicked poorly.
None of those things had anything at all to do with Hooper, Pocock, or the Pooper as a strategy. If anything, our breakdown advantage vindicated the policy.
Neither is it because we lack a "rampaging 8". We have several players who can fill that on-the-ball role, and do. Kepu and Sio, for example. They just don't happen to be playing 8.
Why did we lose to the All Blacks? Because they're a much better team than we are currently. For once, the old saw that there aren't any Wobs who'd make their side is actually true. By removing Hooper or Pocock, we'd remove one of the three players we have who actually could make their side.
Developing players is great. Let's do it. But let's not do it by picking them to start tests unless they're actually the best option. Timani certainly isn't that option. He has good qualities but major weaknesses. He needs quite a bit of work to get to test level. That work can happen in the wider squad and on tour.
Holloway might well have been in the mix now but for injury.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Agree re the wingers but it's a short term fix and by the time we are travelling we could have Speight and Naivalu occupying the spots. It won't surprise me a fraction if Speight is in the 23 this week because of the immediate deficiency you identify.
I think Mumm will start because our lineout was a whole lot better when he inadvertently came on for Fardy last game. So purely to get that off to a good start, he's also been a rare star in our big fowards' general play in the Bledisloe games. I think he'll be rewarded.
- Status