Wallabies v Springboks Saturday 9th Sept NIB Stadium

[RedsHappy]

RedsHappy, how are you so confident it's a coaching issue and not a lack of quality in the playing stock. Given the dearth of options in some positions i would have thought the second far more likely.

Essentially, because the level and rate of our forwards' skills improvement is way too low over extended periods of time. The way to judge coaching is principally in this area. From a a baseline of (keeping it simple) 100 units of skill and relevant KPIs, who is that new, updated baseline say 12 months forward? The issue is not 'we're just not as good as the ABs' forwards so let's just accept our lower skill level', the issue for us is 'how do we improve our skills and performance outcomes over time in relation to where we start from'. And that is precisely where and why excellence in rugby coaching matters hugely, and works so powerfully when it's good. And why the best teams invest so much cash and effort in building superior coaching team across all the key rugby disciplines that matter. I see no meaningful improvements in our aggregate standard of forwards play since (say) 2016's England series. Have a look at this summary from Scott Allen (link below) re our set pieces and work effectiveness at the attacking rucks in Perth. Are these outcomes and standards good enough - is this just an 'we only have mediocre players who'll never improve' issue? I don't think so. http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/09/12/one-step-forward-a-couple-backwards-for-the-wallabies/
PS: sorry re no paras above but something is broken in GAGR's rendering and format at present - at least in Safari.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Hawko, you are so right about the way we view props.

Your call for Slipper's return reminds me that he was seriously out of form for quite a while before he elected to get his injuries right. I see Sio as being in the same boat. He had a bad year last year with injuries and just look at the bandaging he carries on his leg atm. Any leg injury not completely healed should just about automatically rule a prop out until it is fixed.

Looking for a seasoned prop around 30 yo who has been in passable to good form, look to Ben Alexander. Still a good couple of years in him and a wealth of experience.

We probably / definitely have moved on from Benny A. but he would do no worse than what we have. Bit average in scrums but normally worked pretty hard around the paddock - and IMO our current crop of props aren't over-extending themselves in general around the park workload.

It's not ALL about stats. That is another of our problems. Some blokes seem to play to end up with good stats by hitting rucks and mauls when unnecessary (but adds to their individual stats) and so on. One could go on and on...

 

[Up the Guts]

I don't think he will ever be accurate enough to be a reliable goal-kicker. That being said i'd be stoked if he proved me wrong.

Yeah I don't think he'll ever be the number one kicker but I'd like if he could lift his percentage a bit so we're not constantly stuck in the realm of 'yeah but it had the legs though.' For instance I'd like him to get to the stage where he's pretty reliable from 50 out straight in front.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Perfect practice makes perfect execution, or at least pushes in that direction. Is he missing the right sort of, or right amount of practice at his craft?

 

[Derpus]

Yeah I don't think he'll ever be the number one kicker but I'd like if he could lift his percentage a bit so we're not constantly stuck in the realm of 'yeah but it had the legs though.' For instance I'd like him to get to the stage where he's pretty reliable from 50 out straight in front.

Certainly needs to be for it to be an option we continue to use instead of going to the lineout.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Sorry to say but Sean McMahon was quite ordinary against the Saffas. He doesn't stop, that I'll give him, but it was like he hit a brick wall every time he tried to run the ball. He plays way above his weight at Super level, but is not a test No 8.

 

[wamberal]

He's got a good attitude, though. Chubby likes players with a good attitude.

 

[Braveheart81]

I thought the segment on our attacking breakdown problems on Kick and Chase last night was pretty good.

They highlighted how too often our backs in particular should have been committing to the breakdown they were near but instead ran elsewhere to re-align.

There were also a couple of instances where McMahon and other forwards were in logical places to hit the breakdown to secure our ball and instead stood off and we got punished.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Sorry to say but Sean McMahon was quite ordinary against the Saffas. He doesn't stop, that I'll give him, but it was like he hit a brick wall every time he tried to run the ball. He plays way above his weight at Super level, but is not a test No 8.

He's more a 7.5, high work rate and pretty good over the ball, good in the loose, but lacks that consistent power game to get over the gain line that you need from a number 8.

I don't mind McMahon, but a more ideal situation would be to have him as a bench player providing impact and versatility where required.

 

[Braveheart81]

He's more a 7.5, high work rate and pretty good over the ball, good in the loose, but lacks that consistent power game to get over the gain line that you need from a number 8.

I don't mind McMahon, but a more ideal situation would be to have him as a bench player providing impact and versatility where required.

Our biggest problem is the lack of alternatives. His game in the second Bledisloe is easily the best game by a number 8 for the Wallabies this year.

 

[wamberal]

Our biggest problem is the lack of alternatives. His game in the second Bledisloe is easily the best game by a number 8 for the Wallabies this year.

True. Sad to say.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Our biggest problem is the lack of alternatives. His game in the second Bledisloe is easily the best game by a number 8 for the Wallabies this year.

I agree BH. It's been a issue for some time, probably since Palu left and even then there was hot debate about him and whether he was held on to for a season or two too many. Pocock being played at no.8 is not ideal either.

McMahon was a terror in Bledisloe 2 and he, Hooper and Genia combined very well which is what you want from your no.8. But he was exposed on the weekend. He may well play better this weekend against the Argies because their style/gameplan is very similar to the Aussies.

 

[Braveheart81]

This is why the most likely options at number 8 next year are Pocock or an uncapped option, most likely Naisarani. Holloway could put himself in the frame if he has a stellar Super Rugby season but he'd seem to be a long shot.

It is a reasonable bet that the uncapped, not currently eligible Naisarani will be the best option at some point next year. That's a pretty poor position to be in but it is certainly the reality.

Everyone is critical of playing both Pocock and Hooper but the reality is that both are consistently amongst our best players and the games that Pocock did play at number 8 were better than any true number 8s have provided for us as an alternative on a consistent basis.

It's a case of compromising by picking someone who isn't a specialist in that position or by compromising and picking someone who just isn't particularly good.

 

[Derpus]

Is Naisarani any good in the lineout?

I foresee our lineout re-emerging as a defining issue if we end up with Hooper - Naisarani - Pocock, with say Hanigan and Timani as bench options.

Edit: i suspect McMahon's run in the first team at 8 is Cheika shoe-horning him in to try and convince him to stay, surely. Timani, despite his dip in form, still makes more sense at 8 even after the Bled 2 performance. Surely McMahon offers more from the bench than Timani or Dempsey as well.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I gather that Naisarani won't be Wallaby eligible until late next year, somewhere around November I think I saw. That being the case, we will desperately need Holloway, or another legitimate No 8, to make the grade earlier in the year. I, for one, would like to see the Hooper/Pocock combination ceased for our long term benefit.

 

[Derpus]

I gather that Naisarani won't be Wallaby eligible until late next year, somewhere around November I think I saw. That being the case, we will desperately need Holloway, or another legitimate No 8, to make the grade earlier in the year. I, for one, would like to see the Hooper/Pocock combination ceased for our long term benefit.

For better or for worse i suspect Cheika disagrees with you regarding the Pooper.

 

[Scrubber2050]

For better or for worse i suspect Cheika disagrees with you regarding the Pooper.

Yeah I agree - Chek seems to have tied his coaching future with Hooper/Pocock combo.

Worked well a couple of years ago, bit like Chek.

Think it should be put to bed now. Every opposition team can deal with it.

 

[Sully]

Shit we have a entire year of people talking up Naisarani before we actually see if he's any good. Won't that be fun!

 

[TSR]

Yeah - this sound like Henry Speight 2.0.

 

[KAOPointman]

My take for what it is worth.

What a difference 2 weeks make. We go from great effort in Bled 2 to back to where we were. That says to me that the performance is Bled 2 was an abrogation.

Our props Sio and Keps have been poor for over a year. Last year I think Sio played 3 ir 4 tests without a total of 1 run. I thought AAA was very good and got his starting chance. He has not taken it and that is disturbing.

Our scrum with the odd exception is fucking poor. And that's with the world's best scrummaging hooker. The props are poor but so are the other 5 blokes.

Robertson really must have something on Chek to warrant even getting picked last year, let alone last week. Fucking disgraceful.

Taf has been good and should have been the starting hooker for about 3 years.

Coleman was very good but Rory not so. Simmo was just Simmo.

Hanigan is a joke and even Andrew Slack flogged him yesterday in "The Sunday Mail". But he is a Chek "favourite" and keep getting picked.

McMahon AND Hooper were quite poor. Hooper's form seems to have waned since he got the captaincy.

Genia wasn't poor, he was shit but his pundits will raise his Bled 2 performance for another couple of years. Trouble is a real lack of depth at 9. Pull some bloke from the NRC and give him a shot (like the young hooker).

Only good thing about Foley was he kicked everything in sight

TK, Speight, Hodge, Folau all received just pass marks from me - 5's

The bloke who continues to excel is Kurtley - truly an amazing effort.

Another fail to Chek and his assistants. How long is this Mario going to be around for? He is getting paid for sitting on his arse.

Genia poor? Huh. Even sooo...havnt heard of the young brumby star coming through hey.....he's very good.
Totally agree about Robertson.......I've asked a million times what that guy does good to get picked and never heard a decent response. He's small, slow and unimpressive in all facets.
As for Speight and Hodge.....I think u watched a diff game.....they had good games with some exceptions running lines and great metres gained!
And Foley....well nothing knew there.....if he kicks well.....he at least gets one thing right a game!
As for Hooper having a crap game.....you lost me there biiig time........