Wallabies v. Springboks, 18th July 2015, Suncorp, Brisbane

[Slim 293]

Mitchell doesn't need to prove himself at all, we all know how good he was here, his last few years were injury plagued but he finally has got his body right. Just needed a demonstration that he's still got it which he did.

Eh?

Mitchell doesn't need to prove himself because we know how good he was way back in a time when the likes of Kurtley Beale was considered a world class fullback?

Because of one try in Europe (despite how good it was)?

Due to the lack of fullback options I would maybe consider him in the mix leading into the RWC.......... but he's an outside chance at this stage.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Foley makes close to 2 handling errors per game at 26 from 14 games. Cooper this year has made 0 from 3.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Where Foley blows Cooper out of the water is he runs 50m to Cooper's 30m per game.

These stats are from the vodacom rugby app if anybody wants to look at their own stats.

 

[Joeleee]

Yet Australia didn't win..

Did you watch the games, firstly scrummaging earns greater scrutiny in 2015 then 2003 and secondly the laws/interpretations have negatively impacted on a open side flankers pilfering ability in tackles and rucks..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not saying we should necessarily go with the two open sides in 2015, I just think good reasoning should be used to argue against it. If you think it won't work THIS time because pilfering is less important (which isn't Hooper's strength anyway) and because it will weaken our scrums, fine. Don't write it off because of some half truth about a decade ago that doesn't hold up to scrutiny though.

We didn't win, no, but we got within one kick of winning against the absolute best team in the world and beat the second best in the semi, coming from a similar ranking to what we have currently. Not perfect, but a pretty good outcome and a a long way from a "failed experiment".

 

[fatprop]

Foley makes close to 2 handling errors per game at 26 from 14 games. Cooper this year has made 0 from 3.

The way the Tahs play, there will be more handling errors, they play flatter and faster than most sides

 

[TOCC]

I'm not saying we should necessarily go with the two open sides in 2015, I just think good reasoning should be used to argue against it. If you think it won't work THIS time because pilfering is less important (which isn't Hooper's strength anyway) and because it will weaken our scrums, fine. Don't write it off because of some half truth about a decade ago that doesn't hold up to scrutiny though.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny? That's your opinion and is pretty subjective.. Objectively two opensides have been tested previously in conditions which were far more favourable at the time, and Australia's pack was beaten around the ground and dominated at scrum time, that isn't a half truth, just watch the replays rather then glancing at the score-line.

Eh, why stop at two open-sides, let's go for three open-sides starting across the back row? Do you think this will strengthen Australia's ability to penetrate the gain line, disrupt mauls and compete in scrums?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Highlander35]

8 opensides!

1. G. Smith
2. D. Pocock
3. M. Hodgeson
4. J. Butler
5. L. Gill
6. S. McMahon
7. M. Hooper
8. C. Fainga’a

 

[Viking]

Eh?

Mitchell doesn't need to prove himself because we know how good he was way back in a time when the likes of Kurtley Beale was considered a world class fullback?

Because of one try in Europe (despite how good it was)?

Due to the lack of fullback options I would maybe consider him in the mix leading into the RWC.... but he's an outside chance at this stage.

Well it wasn't just one try. It was the entire game. What really impressed me was his defence and his strength into contact. 2 traits which I hold very high at Test level. He was reading the defence well - putting on big hits, and he was running very strongly - often bumping off opposition forwards.

Combined this with what other posters are saying about his boot, and his recent game-time at fullback then you pretty much have a player with the best skill-set to compliment both Speight/Horne and Folau at the back.

The RC would be the perfect setting to see if he still has it at Test level because his complete skill-set is just too good ignore. No winger in Aus has the complete skillset to defend, run, kick, pass, act as a second fullback - maybe JOC (James O'Connor) but his form ain't there.

 

[KOB1987]

Almost certainly we are going to see Hooper and Pocock on the field at the same time time in this game. They could well be named to start together or they may finish together, or it could be in the middle. We need a statistician at the ready to break down the stats for that period of the game versus the rest of it..

 

[ACT Crusader]

That will happen after the Reds make an announcement that their end of season review will be carried out by Redshappy, Train Without a Station and Gnostic with a message that they have searched the internet far and wide and these are the three pundits who they feel can best set the club in the right direction.

Gnostic won't be available, it seems he's still busily working on his Dean's postmortem......

 

[Brumby Runner]

Almost certainly we are going to see Hooper and Pocock on the field at the same time time in this game. They could well be named to start together or they may finish together, or it could be in the middle. We need a statistician at the ready to break down the stats for that period of the game versus the rest of it..

I will be surprised if they are both on the ground at the same time, and less surprised if only one of them is in the game day 23. Certainly don't think it is almost certain at all.

 

[Slim 293]

Sorry Seb V, I can't quote.... but re: Mitchell:

I agree that he might be worth looking at based on what he can offer the Wobs (as we lack a decent wing/fullback hybrid), but the talk of him now suddenly being the best winger we have, despite his name not even being floated before that final, is a bit over the top............

 

[Scoey]

Mitchell doesn't need to prove himself at all, we all know how good he was here, his last few years were injury plagued but he finally has got his body right. Just needed a demonstration that he's still got it which he did.

He should feature for Toulon in the Top 14 semi and final. Should be on Eurosport.

He's a genuine finisher, good defender, experienced, can kick, play fullback and performed in big games.

Pretty sure that you were one of the many saying that it was lunacy to consider Pocock based on past form and a couple of games post injury. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Viking]

Sorry Seb V, I can't quote.. but re: Mitchell:

I agree that he might be worth looking at based on what he can offer the Wobs (as we lack a decent wing/fullback hybrid), but the talk of him now suddenly being the best winger we have, despite his name not even being floated before that final, is a bit over the top....

I agree. I certainly wouldn't be putting him in the RWC squad before starting him first this Rugby Championship.

 

[cyclopath]

One thing I'll say about Foley is that his error rate actually isn't that low.

Foley's strength is his running and support game. Foley is a deceptively strong runner. He's also really improved his kicking game over what it was a few years ago. His game management is merely OK for me.

Cooper is a better game manager, runner of a backline and passer. He does (or did) come with more errors, but he can do things no other 10 playing right now can do.

Incidentally, Foley's form this year has been pretty average, particularly compared to last year. This website's rating of the 10s is interesting.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...st5r--rating-super-rugbys-playmakers--week-16

Will depend on what Cheika wants. I'd go with Cooper if he plays well the next two games, but I suspect Cheika will stick with Foley.

It's interesting when 10 play is looked at closely. I agree with your relative ratings of the two above, by the way.
After last weekend I heard a Kiwi comm heaping praise on Carter at 10 for the Crusaders. Especially how brilliantly he ran the back line. I watched him closely. Nearly every pass was him shovelling it on to a forward runner with no "running the back line" at all. Carter's strength is his all round ability, but sometimes we see what we believe we should see. Cooper does a lot of meat and potatoes well. Excellent passer. And some flashy. Foley's running and support is his point of difference. His positional defence is good without being a dominant tackler. Both are kicking quite well now, with Foley getting better distance now.
Which do I want? Both. Suspect Foley will start early Tests with Cooper getting good time. That may well reverse as the season goes.

 

[Viking]

It's interesting when 10 play is looked at closely. I agree with your relative ratings of the two above, by the way.
After last weekend I heard a Kiwi comm heaping praise on Carter at 10 for the Crusaders. Especially how brilliantly he ran the back line. I watched him closely. Nearly every pass was him shovelling it on to a forward runner with no "running the back line" at all. Carter's strength is his all round ability, but sometimes we see what we believe we should see. Cooper does a lot of meat and potatoes well. Excellent passer. And some flashy. Foley's running and support is his point of difference. His positional defence is good without being a dominant tackler. Both are kicking quite well now, with Foley getting better distance now.
Which do I want? Both. Suspect Foley will start early Tests with Cooper getting good time. That may well reverse as the season goes.

Game management is one under-rated stat from Cooper. Did you see Adam Thompsons comments where he praised the young 10's who did a good job but asserted that Cooper's coming back gave the team so much more direction, Cooper consistently talks to his forwards and backs and get's them into the positions he wants. You don't notice this stuff without talking to his team mates.

 

[Marcelo]

My team so far:

1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4
5 Skelton
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 McCalman
9 Phipps
10 Cooper
11 Mitchell
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
14 Speight
15 Folau

16 Sio
17 Latu
18 Holmes
19
20 Higginbotham
21 Genia
22 Giteau
23 O'Connor

 

[Scoey]

4. Simmons. Has been playing well and is building his form nicely each week. He will be ready to go for the Test season.

 

[Purce]

I agree that he might be worth looking at based on what he can offer the Wobs (as we lack a decent wing/fullback hybrid), but the talk of him now suddenly being the best winger we have, despite his name not even being floated before that final, is a bit over the top....

Could that be because the eligibility rules only changed 10 days before the Final?

Because of one try in Europe (despite how good it was)?

That try, and his entire performance in a pressure final, highlighted his form. If anyone has been following the Top 14 they would know his form has been excellent... and consistent.

Definitely deserves a shot in TRC, which I think most people agree with.

 

[qwerty51]

Pretty sure that you were one of the many saying that it was lunacy to consider Pocock based on past form and a couple of games post injury. You can't have it both ways.

Until he performed in Super Rugby.. Mitchell has been performing. ?