Wallabies v Pumas - Saturday 17 September, nib Stadium Perth

[KOB1987]

1. Timani did fuck all. You'd think that 15 minutes against a tired opposition and on debut, with a frame like that he'd stand out. He didn't.
2. McCalman is an 8 which is something no-one else in the squad can claim. Let's see how he goes for the spirit today.

Ultimately I couldn't care less whether he's in the team, he's certain to be called into the squad now though. (replied to the wrong post but it doesn't really matter!)

 

[TOCC]

I should have waited a few minutes. He's out for the rest of the RC.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2016/09/17/23/33/pocock-hand-injury

Pocock broke his hand in the 20th minute, and kept playing like a demon

 

[fatprop]

Timani simply doesn't have the skills to play 8, he has excelled as a limited short lock, hitting hard and running hard with the Rebels.

 

[TSR]

I know people are looking for a hard hitting, hard running 8, but surely if Timani has a future in Gold at all it is at 6 where he doesn't have to worry about the ball at the back of the scrum.

Assuming that Cheika doesn't bring Skelton back into the mix for the next game, we should field our strongest line out for some time with 2 of Coleman, Simmons, Arnold & Douglas + Mumm or Fardy & McMahon/McCalman + Hooper. 3 genuine options + 2 part time options.

Ideally I would like to see the same locks + McMahon. Not sure on BSF.

 

[KOB1987]

I know people are looking for a hard hitting, hard running 8, but surely if Timani has a future in Gold at all it is at 6.

Yes well that's where he ran at last night. In his 13 minutes he had 1 run for 2 metres, made 2 tackles and gave away a penalty.

 

[KOB1987]

Sio's stats were again hopeless last night, he didn't have a single carry. I know he's our best option at the scrum but surely it's time to give Slipper the start.

 

[TSR]

Yes well that's where he ran at last night. In his 13 minutes he had 1 run for 2 metres, made 2 tackles and gave away a penalty.

I wasn't advocating him for 6, just suggesting he was more likely to go alright there than at 8.

Look, I don't know that I would personally have him there but our BSF options at the moment are pretty thin on the ground and neither Mumm nor Fardy are demanding to be selected.

It was his first test - my view is that if Cheika thought he was good enough last week it would be incredibly tough to rule a line through his name after 1 short stint.

 

[Viking]

Sio's stats were again hopeless last night, he didn't have a single carry. I know he's our best option at the scrum but surely it's time to give Slipper the start.

Isn't Slipper scrumming better then Sio? Pretty disappointed with Sio lately and i do rate him when he's in form. It's pretty easy decision to start him from the bench and get Slipper in there.

Not sure what Sio's point of difference is at the moment, maybe tighter play compared to Slipper?

 

[KOB1987]

I agree TSR, I'm not suggesting he shouldn't be persisted with, just that he didn't have much impact in said short stint. If we stick with a 6:2 bench then he should stay there + mccalman, but if we go back to a 5:3 bench then mccalman will get the spot as the only genuine 8 left standing.

 

[Pfitzy]

if we go back to a 5:3 bench then mccalman will get the spot as the only genuine 8 left standing.

This is Michael Cheika. While sipping this coffee, he's trying to understand what you mean by the bit in bold. Also, whether he should give a shit about that statement. You know, given he hasn't so far.


On the topic, from my personal point of view, too much time is given to the "better hands at the back of the scrum".

Forwards now should be sufficiently skilful to pick the ball up at the back of a scrum, lineout, ruck, or any situation. I bet the ABs would have no issue moving any of their back row (or hooker) to 8 and playing at the same pace.

If we get stuffed with injury, Hooper could easily fill in at 8, mainly because his hands are great (look at his leadup for the Kerevi try) and his acceleration gives him an advantage over nearly anyone, including McCalman.

All that said, McMahon is the next logical step at 8. Timani should have used his time on the field to murder pricks, not wander from ruck to ruck on defence and make 1 decent run on attack.

Not sure what Sio's point of difference is at the moment, maybe tighter play compared to Slipper?

He also missed a couple of key tackles next to the ruck. His scrum work is still good but not great. Slipper wasn't much better for the period he was on during the yellow card, but then picked up. Might be time to swap.

Did Rob Simmons play last night?

Unfair in the sense that our scrum was bitchingly strong, and Simmons did the same role Douglas was doing: dirty work.

Funny how both camps see it that way, eh what? "THAT BLOKE DID NOTHING! REPLACE HIM WITH OUR BLOKE WHO YOU SAY DOES NOTHING!"

You'd seriously drop Folau for one bad game?

Yep. Because while he's an awesome athlete, no-one is above being put on notice. I don't give a shit how many Fox Sports appearances he makes, or Fox Sports columns he gets ghost-written for him writes.

I'm honestly shocked that anyone would NOT support him being dropped given his recent form, given how some people here shoot a big, cheesy load over the prospect of Quade getting booted for a missed tackle or three, or Foley for missing a goal, or Phipps for not delivering 148% of his passes to tryscoring players every fucking phase.

People only want accountability for players they actively dislike. That isn't how you coach.

 

[Pfitzy]

Also: turning point in the game was Creevy's injury.

At the next scrum, Cheika sent out TPN to replace Moore. This was key as the young Argie is still growing into his arse, and we started to seriously pressure them from that point onward. It also gave TPN time to get his lungs running, before bringing Robertson on a bit later.

This took a fairly even battle - maybe we had slight ascendancy - into a smashfest. Even though the Argies tried to milk some penalties, at one point we busted them so hard, Barnes got a call from Owens about us going to ground. The fact that it was three metres from the point of engagement seemed to be lost on the Welshman. But then, he was probably daydreaming about New Zealand

 

[Brumby Runner]

Timani simply doesn't have the skills to play 8, he has excelled as a limited short lock, hitting hard and running hard with the Rebels.

But we know what Ben McC brings to the Wallabies, and it leaves me at least wanting more. I am hopeful that the hitting hard, running hard aspects of Timani's game will prove to be beneficial to the Wallabies with more time in the squad and more opportunity.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I know people are looking for a hard hitting, hard running 8, but surely if Timani has a future in Gold at all it is at 6 where he doesn't have to worry about the ball at the back of the scrum.

Assuming that Cheika doesn't bring Skelton back into the mix for the next game, we should field our strongest line out for some time with 2 of Coleman, Simmons, Arnold & Douglas + Mumm or Fardy & McMahon/McCalman + Hooper. 3 genuine options + 2 part time options.

Ideally I would like to see the same locks + McMahon. Not sure on BSF.

Very impressed with McMahon when he came on but most surprisingly was his willingness to contest the Argies' lineout throws. He actually put pressure on their catcher a couple of times.

 

[I like to watch]

People only want accountability for players they actively dislike. That isn't how you coach.

It's not how you coach,but it's how you post your views on an Internet forum

 

[fatprop]

But we know what Ben McC brings to the Wallabies, and it leaves me at least wanting more. I am hopeful that the hitting hard, running hard aspects of Timani's game will prove to be beneficial to the Wallabies with more time in the squad and more opportunity.

it is his ball skills and decison making that need work, the idea of him managing shit aus ball at the back of a scrum ................................ nah, not on current evidence

ben mc or mcmahon at least demonstrate the skills needed for a 8

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

 

[Braveheart81]

The opposition certainly were the weakest we've played this year but a number of our players had their best test of the season which was good to see.

I'd put Kepu, Coleman, Genia, Cooper, Foley, Kerevi and DHP in that category.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[KOB1987]

But we know what Ben McC brings to the Wallabies, and it leaves me at least wanting more. I am hopeful that the hitting hard, running hard aspects of Timani's game will prove to be beneficial to the Wallabies with more time in the squad and more opportunity.

Timani still needs to be developed and I agree with TSR that his spot in the Wallabies if it comes eventually is likely to be as a 6.
McMahon is clearly the front runner for the 8 jersey now and is odds on to get the gig. He could play 80 minutes too and the purpose of having McCalman on the bench would be primarily as injury cover. He doesn't stand out in attack but he gets through a lot of work, much like our 'invisible' locks.

 

[KOB1987]

If we get stuffed with injury, Hooper could easily fill in at 8, mainly because his hands are great (look at his leadup for the Kerevi try) and his acceleration gives him an advantage over nearly anyone, including McCalman.

All that said, McMahon is the next logical step at 8.

Late in the game maybe, but you'd hate for Hooper to have to go there early in the game, we're without an open side then. And yes, it will be McMahon, the ? mark is about who will take Pocock's place in the squad and more than likely on the bench. Its McCalman almost certainly for the first part of the question.

Unfair in the sense that our scrum was bitchingly strong, and Simmons did the same role Douglas was doing: dirty work.

Funny how both camps see it that way, eh what? "THAT BLOKE DID NOTHING! REPLACE HIM WITH OUR BLOKE WHO YOU SAY DOES NOTHING!"

yes and as you probably noticed later I said this largely in jest, I'm a fan of the 'invisible' work rate players.

 

[Highlander35]

McMahon seems to be clicking at Test Level now. He's played an OK game (England 2) and 3 good (England 3, South Africa and Argentina) games now, after having at best OK performances when playing non Tier 1/2 opposition.

My Kingdom for another 2 inches!

For McMahon.

In height.

You dirty bastards.

 

[Froggy]

Seb V, you didn't notice Foley? The only explanation for that I can come up with is every time the Pumas charged through on a loose ball behind our line you covered your eyes, because I counted three occasions where Foley cleaned that up for us, the first making a decisive run which resulted in Kerevi's try.
He also kicked 4 from 5, following 5 from 5 last week, which I thought were the kind of results everyone here was demanding.
I am not a Foley apologist, I have been advocating for him to be on the bench for some weeks now, but I am happy to recognise performance regardless of my opinions.