Wallabies v Ireland, Saturday 16th June, 8.00pm, AAMI Park, Melbourne

[Brumby Runner]

Are you guys really arguing about which of the two shittier parts of our game was actually the shittiest?

That's about it. The way I read it, to Cyclo, the Irish dominance at the breakdown (apart from more turnovers, I don't really think they were all that much better in the forwards than ours) caused the poor decision making and technical deficiencies in our kicking game. To me, the propensity to kick, and the poor execution of those kicks led directly to the dominant territory and possession advantages the Irish enjoyed. Certainly, each had impacts on the other, but I stand by my opinion that both of Foley and Beale had more detrimental impacts on the game than the forward pack as a whole.

Incidentally, how much of the Irish dominance at the breakdown can be attributed to the continued selection of the Pooper? Our back row was out-muscled in this game and Michael Hooper had less influence that probably in any game I've seen him play.

 

[fatprop]

Well I heard Shag Hansen in after match conference have a bloody good idea. When queried he said he didn't think the Red was good, but said Ref was correct to call it , but suggested there needed to be another card added , like a yellow with red stripe for instance, which meant in a case like this the player would be YCed, and then go in front of judiciary!! I though it best idea I have heard for a long time!!

I cynical coach would put out a couple meat heads and take out key players if there were no reds

 

[KOB1987]

I actually feel remarkably cool and collected after last night's game. I think it's because we played so shithouse yet still nearly toppled the #2 team in the world. Wamberal, injuries are a fact of life, there are plenty of times we've had to field a team without one or more of our best players and no one ever claims they didn't deserve to beat us because we were understrength.

I hope the suggestions above that Ireland will field a 2nd string side next week are wrong, it's 2nd v 3rd in the world so why the fuck would they do that? I don't think they 'proved a point' at all by beating us despite scoring less tries, if we beat them next week we leapfrog them in the world rankings so why the fuck would they let that happen?

i watched last night's game with an ex wallaby, he was going mental at the ref!

 

[Dan54]

I cynical coach would put out a couple meat heads and take out key players if there were no reds

No fatprop, he was not saying all foul play should go that way or advocating taking the red card away, but a lot of the contesting in the air ie the French fullback last night etc, are not cynical play.

 

[TSR]

Dan54 - my take in it is that the vast majority of contests don’t end up with the catcher taking a fall like Barrett did last night because wingers are very aware that if they go into a contest for the ball without consideration for the rules/player safety they are likely to be carded. Red or Yellow is often a matter of luck. Even though he was not looking at Barrett as such, he is a test rugby player and should have know instinctively that an opposition player would be jumping for the ball and what his duty of care is. It is disappointing for all the fans but, IMO, the blame lies squarely with the French player.

Barrett took no further part in the game either - and that was a direct result of the reckless actions of the French winger. His only possible excuse was that he appeared to get bumped by Leniert-Brown immediately before the contact.

 

[tragic]

They are number two in the world for a good reason. We could not beat them last night, on our home soil. They have a relatively young team, and had at least one world class player (Sean O'Brien) unavailable. This is their off season.


So I guess the signs are not good.

Not sure I agree. With a mountain of possession they only managed 2 tries - one through the vacant wing spot when Koro was carded and a soft prop vs halfback close range drive. They threw everything at us across two games and scored one try when 15 on 15.
We got penalised off the park, and kicked worse than a subbies 15, yet we only just came up short.
I think the signs so far are a quantum leap forward from this time last year.

 

[Istanbul]

I cynical coach would put out a couple meat heads and take out key players if there were no reds

I don't think he is suggesting do away with red, just add this additional middle ground card. I like it.

 

[K974]

I actually feel remarkably cool and collected after last night's game. I think it's because we played so shithouse yet still nearly toppled the #2 team in the world. Wamberal, injuries are a fact of life, there are plenty of times we've had to field a team without one or more of our best players and no one ever claims they didn't deserve to beat us because we were understrength.

I hope the suggestions above that Ireland will field a 2nd string side next week are wrong, it's 2nd v 3rd in the world so why the fuck would they do that? I don't think they 'proved a point' at all by beating us despite scoring less tries, if we beat them next week we leapfrog them in the world rankings so why the fuck would they let that happen?

i watched last night's game with an ex wallaby, he was going mental at the ref!

They'll do it cos of what happened at rwc15, they lost 4 players and couldn't cope . They have to establish depth. That's the stated goal of making at least a semi in rwc.
No better place to test it than a series decider and I think they'll field a 2nd /3rd choice team .
Going from what I've heard they have proved their point and they will be using next week for game time and blooding
Personally as much as I'd Like to see the first 15 it's the way for us to go , plus you need to realise the length of the ueporan season and game time compared to down here , lions players have been going non stop since sept 16

 

[fatprop]

I don't think he is suggesting do away with red, just add this additional middle ground card. I like it.

Noted, the NRL refs just signal it, no extra card needed

 

[Joe Blow]

A 2nd/3rd choice team?
How many players are in the touring squad?

 

[K974]

New dot watch the game again today , but There is uproar of the referee most Irish media sources complaining even tho we got the result
Every game now win loose draw it's a referee bitch fest , every country every team

 

[Dan54]

Noted, the NRL refs just signal it, no extra card needed

yep but isn't that instead of a card, I suppose it could be yellow plus a signal, it's probably splitting hairs.

 

[K974]

A 2nd/3rd choice team?
How many players are in the touring squad?

30 odd but they have an uncapped 10 byrne ,
1 cap 9
So that could be sexton and murray replaced by 3rd choice
And there is a few others
Porter
Beirne
Larmour

A 2nd xv really but with some 3rd choice like byrne and coooeny

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm happy for the Pockock one not to be reviewed and agree that collisions happen when 30 big blokes are flopping about but let's apply that approach more broadly. I truly don't think the Frenchman deserved a red. I don't think either of the yellows were warranted last night. Refs need to stop looking to apply every rule and refereeing by the letter of the law. Just let if flow, let teams adjust and ensure it is a good game.

At the risk of breaking board etiquette: are you high?


Reaching out to interfere with the halfback's collection of the ball when you are at the bottom of the ruck flat on your back is quite simply cheating. It's not a grey area penalty like the 4 point stance, or a questionable side entry penalty, or the even more questionably 'sealing off' penalties when the opposition isnt really committing, or the difference between a genuine intercept attempt and a knock-down. It was a deliberate breach of the rules to gain an advantage, inside his own 22.

Yeah, I know, all sorts of stuff goes on in the ruck, but when you get caught taking the piss like that it's gotta be a yellow every time.

 

[Shiggins]

Watching the safa game. Poite right penalties sa for hands on the ground before on the ball in a turnover. Ireland got away with this all night.
Another example was when we tried to turn over an Irish ball. The ball pops out because they didn't release and the Ireland get the ball again. Play on

Exact same thing happened earlier but it was us with the ball. Ball pops out we get possession penalty to Ireland.

I hope we have a better ref next week

I also hope we have a better kicking game because that was the main issue from the wallabies.

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[Lorenzo]

To the actual match: Beale still can't consistently tackle well (regularly gets bumped going ball and all - he seemingly has never learned to tackle properly) and we need to play a proper 6 with Pocock at 7 and MH on the bench. We don't always get outmuscled at the breakdown playing the Pooper but we mostly do.

 

[KOB1987]

To the actual match: Beale still can't consistently tackle well (regularly gets bumped going ball and all - he seemingly has never learned to tackle properly) and we need to play a proper 6 with Pocock at 7 and MH on the bench. We don't always get outmuscled at the breakdown playing the Pooper but we mostly do.

The only reason you’d put Hooper on the bench is if there was someone better than him. And there isn’t. If we get outmuscled at the breakdown it’s not because we have both of hooper and pocock on the field.


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[RedsHappy]

One important truth emerges from last night and Ireland's recent very impressive provincial and Test form:

The ridiculous notion that Australian rugby is 'simply destined' to degrade into a tiny code here as 'we have to compete with NRL and AFL and so however we manage ourselves we're going to slowly fade downwards' is devastated by the key facts underpinning the sustaining and recent resurgence of Irish rugby as:

Population of the country Ireland: 4.8m - where rugby has to compete with soccer and Gaelic football (go to the Irish Times site and you'll see these codes on average get more coverage than rugby)
Population of Sydney alone: 5.4m, population of Australia: 24.5m.

So, how does Irish rugby with similar code-to-code contests as in Australia, relatively speaking, do so well with a population just 19.5% the size of Australia's?

- Centralised system for the entire code
- Competently managed IRFU
- All-levels rugby skills development and coaching focus
- Consistently aiming for the attainment of coach recruitment excellence at all elite coaching levels
- Sound policies for selecting and developing young players through club to elite levels

That is, a sound institutional framework for running the code, aligned with competent management of rugby skills, player development life cycle and elite coaching excellence.

 

[Quick Hands]

Watching the safa game. Poite right penalties sa for hands on the ground before on the ball in a turnover. Ireland got away with this all night.
Another example was when we tried to turn over an Irish ball. The ball pops out because they didn't release and the Ireland get the ball again. Play on

Exact same thing happened earlier but it was us with the ball. Ball pops out we get possession penalty to Ireland.

I hope we have a better ref next week

I also hope we have a better kicking game because that was the main issue from the wallabies.

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We'll have Gauziere as the three of them have been appointed for the series 1 x test as ref and 2 x tests as AR. The lamentable Ben Skeen is the TMO again. (sighs heavily)

 

[fatprop]

To the actual match: Beale still can't consistently tackle well (regularly gets bumped going ball and all - he seemingly has never learned to tackle properly) and we need to play a proper 6 with Pocock at 7 and MH on the bench. We don't always get outmuscled at the breakdown playing the Pooper but we mostly do.

I thought Hooper was our best forward last night