Wallabies v England, Sat 11th June, 8.00pm, Suncorp Brisbane

[Brumby Runner]

Do you actually think Australia's kicking game was good?

Foley failed to find touch from a penalty and Folau kicked out on the full from outside the 22, these are simple errors that can't be afforded at Test level.

And I recall an England penalty kick not finding touch as well. Should they also stop kicking?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Incorrect, a draw in Brisbane, then draw in Melbourne, then a win in Sydney would give us the cup.

It is probably more accurate to say that with a draw in Brisbane, the aim would have to be to win the last two tests to take the Cup, as it will be with having lost in Brisbane. I don't know of any team that goes out with aim of securing a draw.

 

[Brumby Runner]

These sort of hypertheticals are pointless, we simply have no idea what would have happened if different things occoured! There are essentially an infinite number of different potential outcomes.

Had Foley converted the early tries, England might have scored 3 more tries, or 1 less, or 4 different penalties, or had a played binned, or, or.

Factually all you can say is Foley missed a number of kicks, what the impact of those misses were on the overall score is pure speculation.

But Galumay, the more points on the board, the more pressure on the trailing side. Had he made his two early conversions, there is probably more likelihood it would have seen fewer points to England over the course of the game than fewer to Australia. More points would have put the Wallabies in a stronger position to take the win.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Come on IS, it is as common as grass on the field. What Grey did is nothing out of the ordinary. Hardly amateurish, it is apparently, I am told again and again the epitome of professionalism to get away with anything and everything that you possible can, blatant or not. If you don't like it just say so but leave off the hyperbole, it can't be sustained when the practice is as widespread and common as it is.

England has form for actual ball tampering, the last and best known example being coaches/assistants swapping game balls for Jonny Wilkinson to take his kicks at the RWC in NZ.

That is moor premeditated and orchestrated intervention designed to cheat.

If they want to play the footage of Grey V Hill so what? Just add it to Brian Moore's whinging all last week.

In a recent game, the referee actually penalised the offending side when an official on the sideline touched the ball. I thought there had been some sort of official directive put out by WR (World Rugby) to that effect. Anyone throw some light on that?

 

[BarneySF]

It must be time to bring out the chip and chase.

Wow did I really say that?

Morahan!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ash]

In a recent game, the referee actually penalised the offending side when an official on the sideline touched the ball. I thought there had been some sort of official directive put out by WR (World Rugby) to that effect. Anyone throw some light on that?

Those were the rules in the NRC last year, it happened on a few occasions.

 

[Groucho]

These calls to drop Hooper, our best performing player, because he can't play seven, so that we can make room for McCalman, for his impact, all in the name of backrow balance, are unbalanced.

Is this suddenly the G&GR front page?

 

[Slim 293]

In a recent game, the referee actually penalised the offending side when an official on the sideline touched the ball. I thought there had been some sort of official directive put out by WR (World Rugby) to that effect. Anyone throw some light on that?

The Bulls were penalised in the Super Rugby 2013 semi against the Brumbies when one of their bench players caught the ball, preventing the Brumbies from taking the quick lineout.........

 

[dru]

How is it a political statement?

How about we get annoyed by something truly dire and embarrassing, namely what idiot came up with Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum" etc. Bloody hell they should be sacked and invited never to attend another game. What utter shite.

Up there with playing two bars of a song before every lineout and the idiotic heartbeat thing before the scrums. FFS it isn't bloody basketball thankfully, lets keep the cheap American theatrics out of it.

Yes, it is a political statement, one that advocacy is pushing into "the norn". And its well time that it did.

The old lady did repeat a tad and a touch long, but she was openly trying to be friendly, personal and inclusive. Big thumbs up to the organisers on this. Note, the welcome should be at all games not just at internationals.

 

[dru]

From a POMs point of view I agree with my people here in that the Wallabies will prevail in the next 2 tests, but they should at least be hard fought. Eddie Jones has done a great job with England so far, but there are massive improvements still required. England at least have reacquired a decent set piece, but the creative attacking play leaves a lot to be desired. In the 6Ns matches we saw a much improved performance by the pack, but poor play by the backs. Burrell at 12 was a stop gap and that failed being subbed off after 30 minutes. Ford and Farrell resumed their 6Ns partnership, but all of this is temporary until Manu Tuilagi returns from injury.

The Wallabies looked pretty decent for a first match in 6 months. 4 excellent tries and dangerous in possession. I would say the green and gold future looks pretty good. They just came against an England greatly improved from the RWC and battle hardened. Melbourne I am sure will be different. The way your guys found and made use of space was impressive. Now it is just a question of your pack upping their game a little bit, which they will no doubt do.

Should be good practice for your rugby championship and 2 good tests to look forward to. Enjoy and may the best side win!

For me, the English commentators had been warning that the POMs were ready and had taking aim. Few Aussie fans really took it as likely. 10/10 to the English and Eddie, Bodyline round 1 to the old dart.

The next two the Wallabies can be expected to get better. The main problem is that injuries may necessitate not just personnel changes, but a strategy change. Running into test 2 should have seen a lot of rust removed. With a change in strategy, maybe not so much.

If I was English, I'd be favouring my chances here. If England keep playing like that, I may well change the two teams I cheers for (Wallabies and whoever is playing England.)

As an Aussie I'm looking for some more Cheika magic and a a big step up. In the mean time, you are right -it couldnt be a better warm up for the end of year tests. More concerning is that Jones has his eye on the #2 ranking. Time to stand up right now!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Come on IS, it is as common as grass on the field. What Grey did is nothing out of the ordinary. Hardly amateurish, it is apparently, I am told again and again the epitome of professionalism to get away with anything and everything that you possible can, blatant or not. If you don't like it just say so but leave off the hyperbole, it can't be sustained when the practice is as widespread and common as it is.

England has form for actual ball tampering, the last and best known example being coaches/assistants swapping game balls for Jonny Wilkinson to take his kicks at the RWC in NZ.

That is moor premeditated and orchestrated intervention designed to cheat.

If they want to play the footage of Grey V Hill so what? Just add it to Brian Moore's whinging all last week.

It's amateurish because as you rightly say it's something you see in amateur rugby

 

[galumay]

But a conversion, whether it goes over or not, has no impact on the game whatsoever. It's not a sliding doors moment. The restart is the same regardless.

Sorry, wrong. We can never know what the impact is, but its there. I can mean the scoring team lift, or the opposition drop their heads, or neither may change - but its a new reality and its a logical fallacy to assume we can extrapolate the outcome based on what happened in another reality.

But if we do apply your logic then it must also be applied in the reverse - and the statement that we were well beaten even if he made every kick remains incorrect.

Absolutely correct - for exactly the same reason!

 

[tragic]

Sorry, wrong. We can never know what the impact is, but its there. I can mean the scoring team lift, or the opposition drop their heads, or neither may change - but its a new reality and its a logical fallacy to assume we can extrapolate the outcome based on what happened in another reality.




Absolutely correct - for exactly the same reason!

Perhaps I should have said could instead of would - and saved you attacking the straw man.
My point was that to assert foleys flakey kicking had no influence on the outcome of the game was utter nonsense.
Glad to see you agree.

 

[fatprop]

Do you actually think Australia's kicking game was good?

Foley failed to find touch from a penalty and Folau kicked out on the full from outside the 22, these are simple errors that can't be afforded at Test level.

But they weren't the reason we lost, they didn't help, but they are just another 1%'er to add to the long list

 

[galumay]

My point was that to assert foleys flakey kicking had no influence on the outcome of the game was utter nonsense.
Glad to see you agree.

Yes, its just that we cant know what the influence was. Might have meant a closer game, a bigger win by England or a draw. Its the butterfly effect, once you model a different reality every subsequent thing about the future potentially changes. Its why predicting the future has turned out to be problematic!

 

[Scrubber2050]

My take:

Sio was poor - outsmarted all night and is just not capable of an up tempo game in the loose.
Holmes was average.

Folau great try was negated to me with a shit pass that ultimately led to a 7 pointer. To me, his test form is consistent...

Hooper's try's were great and the seagulling paid off bigtime He was also out wide on the wing for the last try but nobody could have saved that one.

Our discipline let us down badly and the sharpshooter kicked nearly everything.

Was surprised at how little positive impact Pocock and Moore had on the game. Feel sorry for Pocock (and for the Wallabies) for his injury.

Kerevi and Arnold were OK but.....just. DHP was good.

Cheika would be filthy.

I would change Slipper for Sio (for sure) and go with either Holmes or Keps at THP. Moore needs to improve (yeah yeah, I know he is captain)

Do we now go for a McHoop to maintain the 2 x 7 strategy or bring in a real 8 with Hooper at 7 (McMahon on bench)

Lilo to start over Kerevi and hopefully Horne is fit for the next test.

Training will be tough this week I reckon..........

 

[smithandwesson]

But they weren't the reason we lost, they didn't help, but they are just another 1%'er to add to the long list

Agreed, goal kicking was not the only reason we lost, but here's some interesting stats that i've just worked up: Farrell kicked 24/27 possible points he was offered = 88%. Foley kicked 8/14 possible points = 57%. If Foley had instead kicked 88% like Farrell, Aus would have had 4 more points = 32. If Farrell had kicked 57% instead, England would have had 9 less points = 30. So how does Aus 32 Eng 30 sound? All very hypothetical of course, it doesn't take into account where the kicks were located, the run of the game etc etc., but poignant: Eddie Jones hasn't forgotten how England won the 2003 WC in Australia [forwards + Wilkinson's boot] and he intends to emulate it.

 

[smithandwesson]

It is probably more accurate to say that with a draw in Brisbane, the aim would have to be to win the last two tests to take the Cup, as it will be with having lost in Brisbane. I don't know of any team that goes out with aim of securing a draw.

Nobody was saying "any team goes out with the aim of securing a draw", the discussion was whether achieving a draw in Bris was any better than losing. Suggest we ask Eddie Jones or any of the English what result they would have preferred.
Yes i understand that the cup stays with the holder if the series is shared. But if the score in Melb is say 15-15 [3 tries to Aus vs 5 pen goals to Eng], guess who is going to be rejoicing at that point.
If you look back at the RWC 2015 Eng v Wales, Eng had a chance to tie the scores in the first instance with a pen goal, or, go for a win. Had they tied the scores they might have qualified by coming equal 2nd in group.

 

[Braveheart81]

You're making an awfully big deal about not playing for a draw.

Feel free to tell us all that you told us so if there's another draw in the series.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Fucking hate draws.

Only thing I hate more than a draw is a loss