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Wallabies v Barbarians - 1/11/14 (Twickenham)

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Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Solution is simple.

Watch game. Make informed analysis by self.

The fact that Horwill hit 50 rucks proves that many people of this thread have already pigeonholed him as past it. He played a physical, industrious game that seemed to be lost on the entire G&GR community (look at the rankings on the front page).

Hodgeson was invisible though. I could never see him on the field due to
a) shitty stream
b) he was always trapped at the bottom of the ruck in defence after making tackles
c) He always had his head stuck in the ruck when we were on attack.
Maybe paint is less broad strokes, mate. I've read plenty of reasonably complimentary comments that he was plenty busy, but maybe only less impactful than in the past - doing a lot, but not as imposing as he once was.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Solution is simple.

Watch game. Make informed analysis by self.

The fact that Horwill hit 50 rucks proves that many people of this thread have already pigeonholed him as past it. He played a physical, industrious game that seemed to be lost on the entire G&GR community (look at the rankings on the front page).

Hodgeson was invisible though. I could never see him on the field due to
a) shitty stream
b) he was always trapped at the bottom of the ruck in defence after making tackles
c) He always had his head stuck in the ruck when we were on attack.

Doesn't really prove anything tbh. All it proves is that ESPN reckon he hit 50 rucks. No one has any issue with his workrate, it's whether he provides enough of a physical presence in the tackle/ruck/maul/carry. There's just nothing in the public domain at the moment that tells us the sort of advanced stuff we need to make properly informed judgements.

How many of Horwill's ruck hits resulted in slow ball for them/quick ball for us? How many times did he carry over the gainline? How many of his tackles were for no gain or for loss?

The volume stats aren't the problem, it's the impact ones - and we don't have access to them as far as I know.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Where are people getting the individual player ruck stats from?

Unless I've been missing something for a long time, they're not from ESPNScrum.
 
T

Tip

Guest
Horwill offered more aggro & starch than Carter, Skelton against the Baabaa's and a whole lot more than Simmons has produced this year
 

hammertimethere

Trevor Allan (34)
Agreed, James did what he does and he did it quite effectively. What he didn't do is carry wide, which he historically hasn't done that much and perhaps was not instructed to (as Carter obviously was) or just didn't find that opportunity in the game. His carries in the tight channels were reasonably effective (doesn't get turned over and usually gets over the ad line even if it's by 1 metre, and importantly almost always results in quick ball). Carter played a slightly different game with more wide running (maybe as a consequence of Higgers going off early?). Simmons and of course Skelton are different again. Each brings something different, and I'd prefer all of the boys spend most of their energy to keep trying to do what they are good at.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
Ruck involvement and "hitting" rucks are entirely different things. Plenty of leaning going on at ruck time that doesn't involve a whole lot of hitting or force at all.....
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I saw very few decent ruck involvements by anyone on Saturday, McMahon smashed one unit out of the way, but the rest? meh, a real lack of angry and accuracy IMHO

Part of the reason Genia was getting so much shit ball
 
T

Tip

Guest
Ruck involvement and "hitting" rucks are entirely different things. Plenty of leaning going on at ruck time that doesn't involve a whole lot of hitting or force at all...

However, putting the effort in and being the first person to lean on a ruck and secure the ball is much better than meandering in and smashing the seppo over the ball.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
However, putting the effort in and being the first person to lean on a ruck and secure the ball is much better than meandering in and smashing the seppo over the ball.


I get to disagree there, we lack physicality, if the unit is first of ours there and he just leans in he is wasting our time.

We need forwards prepared to bend their backs and get at it

This is what that looks like
 

chasmac

Alex Ross (28)
I get to disagree there, we lack physicality, if the unit is first of ours there and he just leans in he is wasting our time.

We need forwards prepared to bend their backs and get at it

This is what that looks like

Watching the Red 7, he has obviously been well schooled by McCaw. He's the one in the headgear that has a second crack at the breakdown but forgets that he is running from left to right. F##@# ing cheats !!

BTW Retallick is a beast and this is very smart ( went thru the gate and got the timing right ) and very powerful. His speed of movement seemed to catch the opponent by surprise.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Watching the Red 7, he has obviously been well schooled by McCaw. He's the one in the headgear that has a second crack at the breakdown but forgets that he is running from left to right. F##@# ing cheats !!

BTW Retallick is a beast and this is very smart ( went thru the gate and got the timing right ) and very powerful. His speed of movement seemed to catch the opponent by surprise.


looks to be Matt Todd
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Right, finally watched the game. Moving from front to back:

If Robinson wants a Wallaby jersey back he's going to need to up his work rate. He's not been to a Rugby World Cup, and Cheika needs to take him aside and tell him to start doing extras and lay off the pies.

Finger was a bit quiet. Some silly stuff in there too, but mostly from his own over-eagerness.

WHY the FUCK does Ben Alexander believe its OK to shuffle his feet backwards some time between the words "crouch" and "engage"? This must be a character flaw, because even Gandalf couldn't coach it out of him in Brumbieland. Fucksake...

Not sure why everyone is lining up to smoke Horwill. His game was decent, nothing more. Certainly better than a lot of his work this year, but that isn't saying much. If "wasn't shit" is your criteria for starting Wallaby, then you have a problem. So many times when he makes a tackle he gets in a really bad position - no wonder he gives so many penalties away.

Carter had a couple of good carries and hit the odd ruck, but jeez he needs some more time on reading a player in defence. The number of arm tackles I saw him attempt and miss was awful.

Higgers - poor bastard. Have a good rest sunshine and maybe a haircut, because McMahon fucking bossed it. Great enthusiasm and some of our forwards could take a lesson out of that. The kid's got moxie.

Hodgson had a pretty good game but with the tight five achieving precisely 34.8% of Fuck All on the EddieJonesometer you couldn't really see him standing out.

McCalman had a solid run too - some big carries, good hits, and good support lines too. Suffered a bit from the same things Hodgson did: a tight five unwilling to work hard.

Genia and Cooper can be lumped in together ... actually that's unfair to Cooper. Genia was bloody ordinary. He'd be lucky to make a Super Rugby starting XV in this country with form like that. Less running, more passing. You can't "stick" a defender if you're not threatening the ad line. Passing awful. Running awful. Just awful.

Cooper was a bit to blame for standing so wide and deep. Some of his passing was rusty as fuck, and his defence was no great shakes either. Those people barring up over him defending in the line can get back in their box - he was out the back most of the game when we didn't have the ball, and going upright with it.

Both of them are going to get minutes - for which Nic White can consider himself unlucky - so hopefully they start to come good.

Horne continues to show that hard work can exceed natural talent in a given rugby position. Just does things right. Acceleration over the first 20 is his game, plus smashing pricks. He and McMahon absolutely levelled a bloke. If only he had another two yards of top speed...

To'omua was meh. He's sort of hit a plateau this year.

Kuridrani was Kuridrani - Destroyer of Worlds.

Speight was a bit quiet, and I wouldn't be surprised if his hammy was still acting up and he's just chosen not to tell anyone. Didn't help that the distribution network inside him was busted arse.

Folau showed some nice touches but his lack of top speed was again on show when he broke through and Sarel - who is no slouch - ran him down.

Chibba was quiet, Slipper was good, Kepu was solid, Skelton was well looked after, and needs to work on his shoulders at scrum time. All these things we expected, and I've covered McMahon elsewhere.

The bench reserve backs really added some spark when they came on. The speed of ball with White over Genia was like someone hit the nitro button, and Foley's game right on the ad line jolted the men in gold into action. Lilo had some nice touches and just seems to "get" the Foley combination in a way To'omua didn't.

So when you look at the team selected for Wales, no-one is surprised, are they?

Expect Skelton to be the one missing out from the bench.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
When has Horwill not had a good workrate? Always been the case but right now his involvements are just not effective. Would love to see a mash-up of all his involvements in the game which just the focus on him. You'll see how many times he unnecessarily flops onto a ruck late.
 
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