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Wallabies v Argentina @ CommBank Stadium 7.45pm Sat 15/07

Wallaby Man

Wallaby Man

Nev Cottrell (35)
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
molman said:
I found it odd. I have no doubt he'll have his reasons (whether i agree with them or not is another question). With his bench stacked with forwards, I actually thought we'd see a number of those substitutions earlier. I wonder if his plan changed with where the team was at and how the game was unfolding and he wanted to see if those starters could work their way out of it.

Porecki had the second most tackles behind Valentine in that game, with AAA not far behind. Besides that ball he really wasn't expecting from AAA (I think he thought it was going out the back to Valentine), I really can't recall Porecki doing anything wrong. So I'm not sure why people are so critical and us needing to find a hooker gets raised so often, because it's not a change of personnel at hooker that's winning us a game like that.

We really didn't value the ball when we did get it, with our possession at 38% and territory at 35%. Argentina were the better team on the night. Our defence was better, but they still caused the Wallabies issues with their system. It's hard to know how much of the issues stemmed from Ikitau going off injured and the resulting reshuffle. I think it would have been a slightly different game if that mishap hadn't occured.
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Yes, I reckon the impact of Ikitau's injury just cannot be overstated. Kerevi did not handle the role of 13 at all well, especially in defence but he is also way down on pace and I don't think made any incursions through the defensive line all game.

On Porecki, I think he was the player who missed the tackle that led to the Argies' second last try, very late in the game. I think he was well tired by that time and again the loss of Ikitau probably also contributed there.
 
Wallaby Man

Wallaby Man

Nev Cottrell (35)
Wallaby Man said:
I was just about to write back saying they are getting another 10 pro games a year to expose players because of the NPC. Players getting their games picked apart by analysts, so any decision making patterns they might have that are flaws get quickly exposed and players therefore quickly adapt to improve.
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I can’t remember the podcast but prominent rugby guru Mark Evans was on record saying players in every country play too much rugby these days on a health perspective but Australia is the one outlier where players don’t play enough.
 
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Joe Blow

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Brumby Runner said:
Yes, I reckon the impact of Ikitau's injury just cannot be overstated. Kerevi did not handle the role of 13 at all well, especially in defence but he is also way down on pace and I don't think made any incursions through the defensive line all game.

On Porecki, I think he was the player who missed the tackle that led to the Argies' second last try, very late in the game. I think he was well tired by that time and again the loss of Ikitau probably also contributed there.
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Yes, he fell right off it and probably went too high. Defence is a major problem. One on one and most likely the system. The Argies found a lot of space out wide. It didn’t help when we were down a man.
Ikitau and generally the 13 marshal the backline defence. Any word on the injury?
 
molman

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
Highlander35 said:
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Yes, I get the point your trying to make @Highlander35 and don't disagree. That squad would likely challenge a number of Super Rugby teams.

I was specifically referring/responding to the pool of players currently in the national setups in terms of the number of games they are playing compared to say the Argentinian players. Many of those All Blacks are not playing a significantly different number of games to the Wallaby players, but had they in the past, quiet probably.

Your post does tie into my thoughts around it being the whole system, not a singular dimension. The level of quality in the Shute Shield and Hospital Cup not being where it needs to be in comparison to the NPC, nor do I suspect are many of the junior pathways. The Currie Cup was also, always a step above also, though with the new setup over there with that URC, Champions Cup games and more players abroad I'm not sure it's quite as good as it used to be with less top talent filtering back in, so it will be interesting to see how SA evolve.
 
molman

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
dru said:
Ireland is often quoted in this vein. One issue we have that they don't is the distances between clubs. If Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra clubs were in the one comp with the top 12-14 in the main comp, the quality of the feeder to professional would be immensely better quality than right now.
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Yes, Irelands situation isn't exactly the same as ours, nor would just imitating their system one to one every work, but it does speak to a holistic and strategic focus on bettering the game over there which is really starting to pay dividends which paints a stark contrast to our slide from the heights of being a Rugby powerhouse.

Your point is in part why the idea of a interstate club comp often gets floated as a possible way to elevate standards. The issue is the politics of it all and the extra overheads it adds to a semi-professional comp.
 
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molman

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
Brumby Runner said:
Yes, I reckon the impact of Ikitau's injury just cannot be overstated. Kerevi did not handle the role of 13 at all well, especially in defence but he is also way down on pace and I don't think made any incursions through the defensive line all game.

On Porecki, I think he was the player who missed the tackle that led to the Argies' second last try, very late in the game. I think he was well tired by that time and again the loss of Ikitau probably also contributed there.
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He did, though I actually feel like Leota pressed up too hard creating a rather big jank in the line (and was ball watching because you can see he is almost standing sideways at one point and unaware of the threat) and from Porecki's positioning you can see he only had eyes for Matera (I think it was?) which both him and Quade bit in on. You had a winger running a nice line, such that he hit that seem at pace, at a forward who'd been tackling efficiently for the last 68-69minutes. I don't recall a wide shot to see the entire defensive line either to see how many Argentinians were stacked out wide.

Does a different player in those same circumstances make that tackle. Maybe, though the outcome felt like almost a given to me. It actually looked a lot like some of the plays the Brumbies used to like running with Tom Banks.
 
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Digestif Palu

Digestif Palu

Stan Wickham (3)
Dctarget said:
Where do people sit on this loss compared to last week? An improvement or worse? IMO clear improvement.
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Improvement and being very optimistic, it looked like there was possibly the start of some positive team elements taking shape. I say elements but all I could actually think of was the maul, maybe the scrum but also Arg were very weak there against the AB's right? There were a lot more good individual moments but also similar team issues. Lost possession and territory massively, poor discipline, little cohesion with the ball, porous defense and weak in the rucks.
 
liquor box

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
Dctarget said:
Where do people sit on this loss compared to last week? An improvement or worse? IMO clear improvement.
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It seemed like a massive improvement, 10,12 and 13 all had time to do something, SA smothered us and we always seemed to be going backwards with no time to make decisions.

Is this an indication of the defensive speed of the Boks v Pumas, a different interpretation of the off side line or could it be that we have a few players who have not played too much in the last 12 months or have been playing at a lower level who are now in tune with the speed of a test match?

I think this week showed we are capable of being ranked 4th or 5th in the world if we keep improving.
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

Simon Poidevin (60)
Marce said:
Yeah, both are synonymous. It's a pretty common word in sport even in rugby:




In Australia too:

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Silly. Pretty sure I watched Justin O’Neill have his entire rep career destroyed by Jarryd Hayne in one SOO game.

Until I read someone write “yeah he’s pretty unimpressive but god he’s a weapon” I don’t value these. Jock Campbell was used in the same sentence as Darren Lockyer a year ago…
 
Shiggins

Shiggins

Simon Poidevin (60)
Even without whinging about peyper and Marius and how the wallabies as always seem to end up on the shit side of the sandwich. Even a neutral fan must have been over hearing that Muppet of a TMO chime in. Ruined the flow of the game. Super rugby has been so good and now we are back to tests where the TMO is a pain in the arse and wait for the red cards as well. They will come.

That tackle has put Lenny out with a Broken scapula. That was a 50/50 card. I'm pretty happy it wasn't. Those high speed intersections are very hard to wrap in the tackle. They need to stop Argentina selling everything as well. That player who pretended to die at the end from the touch from samu got his side the win. Made the TMO check soemthing which became a fluke as peyper sees something else to penalise us for.

I can't say the wallabies deserved to win. They didn't. Argentina away from home played better and deserve the win.

I thought our pack was much much better this week. Line out and scrum seemed to function quite well. It's down to game plan and discipline. If we give away 6 penalties a game we win more games. 14 penalties is insane and almost impossible to win games. The fact we almost won giving away 14 penalties is surprising. Pumas were not much better giving away 10.

51 runs vs 80 runs.
10 kicks vs 18 kicks ? How did we kick less but not have anywhere near as much ball ? Is that due to penaltys kicked to touch from Argentina ? Or a mix of us getting turned over /giving away attacking penalties.

When you look at the stats
penalties, runs, territory and possession
There are plenty of areas to improve.

I'm worried about a 70-5 score line next week
 
molman

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
I know the match is done and dusted, but can someone explain that first penalty (in the first min) against the Wallabies? It was called for 9 (White), the mark was where his tackle on 11 ended up on the 22. Unfortunately they didn't show a single close shot of that tackle in the main feed. On the Quade Cam however (which I decided to have a quick look at today) there is a tight in view and it looks totally fine to my eye (both live and when you freeze it).

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The only thing that makes a lick of sense is that he went a little high with his rightarm, but he doesn't. That penalty just smells.
 
John S

John S

Chilla Wilson (44)
Drew said:
^in the nba there’s a new rule where a flop is deemed a penalty against the flopper and a free throw given to the opposition. Surely a TMO in the refs ear all game would bring flopping to his attention? Or is simulating (soccer term) not a penalty in rugby? And finally, surely the TMO picked up Matera blindsiding White without the ball from an offside position. Or has the Faf incident scared him off acting up for a penalty?

a deck chair. At least we are figuring out which ones to get rid of, I hope.
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Apparently according to the ref and TMO it was penalty only
 
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