Wallabies v Argentina @ CommBank Stadium 7.45pm Sat 15/07

[qwerty51]

A fit and firing Bell and Taniela are going to have massive impacts in this side. We saw what Bell did already with just 1 carry. Gleeson will make a huge impact when he's fit (whether @ 7 or off the bench). Skelton & Arnold are very good players but they're completely new into this system, environment and cohesion with the rest of our players. Kellaway, who is always calm under pressure, makes good decisions and has a low-error rate, will take over from Wright when ready. Quade's goal-kicking was a positive (and this is very underrated come RWC time). Carter got more minutes. Give it time. Not all hope is lost.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Wright is cooked if Kellaway is fit. That was a shocking performance and backed up his game in RSA where he was a massive issue with the back 3.

The pack I thought was okay, however with AAT playing the bulk of minutes we are never going to be a contender with the best teams on a consistent basis. He’s a very good TH but the reality is most teams would love to play him instead of Tupou.

Hooker is a big issue, neither Porecki of Uelese did anything wrong but neither are anything better then a solid bench options for a club side.

McRieght tried hard but zero impact, he was consistently blown off the ball. I feel we are stuck in a time warp playing a 7 the way we do.

White/Cooper had a good game but limited platform because our forwards lack dominant contact.

Slipper looks cooked. Can do a job but do we really want guys that can just do a job? We need more than that.

 

[Wallaby Man]

I’ll continue saying it but we are playing against guys that are playing 30-35 games a year. They just understand how to handle situations when they arise on the field because they have seen it time and time again. They are better pros than our guys, not that they are better trainers and look after their body better but they just know what to do and when to do it because they have faced it so many times. At a minimum their players if not involved in that many game days are involved in the process of video analysis, game day tactics etc. that just make them so much wiser to adjust on a basis 30-35 times a season. They just live and breathe the game and it’s intricacies, that matter when the going gets tough.

We talk consistently about cohesion but our guys come from fewer teams and have more time together than this Argentine team, we talk about making sure our players are fresh for the international season but this Argentine team has gone through the ringer at their respective clubs. We try and balance so many things that I’m not sure in 2023 count to the success of the team any more, perhaps it’s actually to the detriment of the team. Talent isn’t an issue as respectfully we are better than Argentina man for man, we just aren’t better organised, disciplined or smart than they are.

 

[Marce]

Talent isn’t an issue as respectfully we are better than Argentina man for man, we just aren’t better organised, disciplined or smart than they are.

I'm not sure, it depens of the position. Montoya and Creevy are better than any Aussie hooker. Emiliano Boffelli is better than any Aussie fullback. I see more deep in the Argentinian forwards pack so Australia isn't better than Argentina man for man. Maybe 10 years ago, not anymore.

In the best of cases, they are evenly matched and that's easily demonstrable with their last confrontations and their positions in World ranking.

 

[qwerty51]

The WBs are going to be destroyed by whoever they face in QFs

Most likely you guys, how do you watch that game and determine they would destroyed if we played again? The Wallabies would be rightly favourites again.

 

[Marce]

Most likely you guys, how do you watch that game and determine they would destroyed if we played again? The Wallabies would be rightly favourites again.

Watch the last 5 games between Australia and Argentina. Favourites is a bit exaggerated. 50/50 in the best case on a neutral ground

 

[KOB1987]

I won’t quote any of this, but here are the WR (World Rugby) protocols with regards to the use of the TMO. In short, Jonker was operating well beyond the scope of what he was there for. It’s a good read if you have a few minutes.

https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2022/06/17/d96beea2-759d-4856-b8db-f4aa13d5cc75/2022-TMO-protocol-Approved-by-Council-May-2022-v2.pdf

Aside from all the minor Aus infringements he was not entitled to highlight, both he and Peyper should have at least checked the lead up to that last try, like they did with all the Wallabies ones.

 

[Dan54]

Ok fellas haven't read all posts etc, as left it until this morning before logging into the Net. I not sure what spark Wallabies are missing, but phase after phase doesn't work anymore, after 3-4 rucks I noticed the Pumas had set defence and Wallabies were getting knocked over behind gainline time and again, I saw one about 7 phase play where they looked to lose 20ms? As a neutral, I thought what I saw was pretty even, I not sure about and apart from Justin Harrison's voice annoying me, really enjoyed the game. I don't think Wallabies were poor by any means, just missing in a few strike players, I know Mrk N's try was a great intercept etc, but I didn't think he was as godlike as the bird who interviewed hin after the game, I thought she was going to drop to her knees and perorm some sex act at one stage!!

 

[Purce]

Such a gifted talent. Got raw areas of a game to be worked on but gee when he gets involved it’s effective

This regarding Wright? If so I absolutely agree. Incredibly talented. Think he needs to be chucked on the wing. I feel like Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) could be a pretty exceptional 15 in time. Not yet though.

Kellaway and Petaia safer options at the back currently IMO.

 

[Purce]

Carter Gordon made HUGE unforced errors and everybody says he's the new Larkham

It's the kids 2nd test match... and out of position at that. He isn't the reason they lost.

 

[qwerty51]

Watch the last 5 games between Australia and Argentina. Favourites is a bit exaggerated. 50/50 in the best case on a neutral ground

So not destroyed?

 

[Purce]

Flook to 13. When’s Petaia available to fuck Wright off?

He is actually firming now isn't he? Smart player, good defender. I really like Foketi as well but see him primarily as a 12 and don't think Kerevi is a 13 these days(defensively).

The way rugby is played now though the number on their back is just that... a number. They can still play other roles not traditionally required by their number. 12/13 Foketi and Kerevi could work if they make Samu defend at 12.

---------------

Completely forgot about Petaia. I've always thought that 13 was his best position.

Obviously Perese as well however his form this year was underwhelming.

 

[KOB1987]

So instead of a victory having us leapfrog England into 6th on the rankings, the loss saw Argentina leapfrog us and we now sit 8th. However, the sun is up.

 

[PhilClinton]

Wright horrendous. That’s all I have to say. Should give up the 15 experiment and focus on becoming a quality winger

Should focus on learning French or Japanese after that performance.

 

[PhilClinton]

Aside from Wright, I think it’s pretty hard to pile shit onto any player after that game.

If we had won, the last 5 pages wouldn’t exist and we’d all be happy with the great escape and just calling for Wright to be dropped.

 

[Wallaby Man]

I'm not sure, it depens of the position. Montoya and Creevy are better than any Aussie hooker. Emiliano Boffelli is better than any Aussie fullback. I see more deep in the Argentinian forwards pack so Australia isn't better than Argentina man for man. Maybe 10 years ago, not anymore.

In the best of cases, they are evenly matched and that's easily demonstrable with their last confrontations and their positions in World ranking.

Man for man is just a generalization but Boffelli is a perfect example. He’s not incredible on his feet, he’s not powerfully explosive, he’s not ridiculously quick. He’s obviously very good at these things but compared to Wright he’s not as “gifted” however he is so smart in his decision making and awareness. He’s great under the high ball but he’s not like Nawaqanitawase searing over the pack, his timing on it however is incredible. Boffelli is one of the best wing/fullbacks at doing the 1 percenters.

 

[dru]

Where are people getting their stats? ESPN, like last week seems dodgy, or at least incomplete. Still, running with what we've got:

Does this strike a bell? Possession 38%. Territory 35%. We all know how that story plays out against an actual real first tier team.
Total passes from the halves Aus: 58; Arg: 108 just with the starting pair. White upped the anti this time with 38 passes, but the results speak a consistent game plan. Ouch.

Tackles in the match section are too rounded for me, but they add up in the player stat section so I'll run with it. Tackles Aus: 200; Arg: 80.

In the player tackles the highest number of tackles required by an Argie player was 8. For the Aussies (I'm just picking out results interesting to me): the top tacklers, mostly):
Quade: 14
Carter: 10 these two the highest in the backline
Valetini: 22, don't doubt he found it harder to follow up with driving attack runs in traffic
Porecki: 20, I'm not buying this "lack of input" narrative, add in the first time in ages we have an actual line out thrower and this bloke is inked into the XV with indelible ink for me.
AAA: 19
McReight: 19 again these two doing more than people are seeing.
Slipper: 12 - OK I wasn't buying the "tired" narrative, but perhaps.

Look, I like having EJ (Eddie Jones) in control 100 times more than Rennie. And part of the deal we were buying into (those of us who were buying into it) was his "experimentation" and broad, umm, 'unique' thinking. Sheesh, it aint working in two games. It's not much for the robbery plan to be polished I know, but man this "RWC heist" needs to get on rails soon. If thing keeps up the way they are, I may even owe Brumby Runner an apology.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

This regarding Wright? If so I absolutely agree. Incredibly talented. Think he needs to be chucked on the wing. I feel like Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) could be a pretty exceptional 15 in time. Not yet though.

Kellaway and Petaia safer options at the back currently IMO.

Nah, talking about Marky. He’s a Winger and has the potential to be an elite one. Leave him there and let him become it.

Kellaway is the safest option. I get Wright has X factor but gee he can cost you and he will at least once a game like his dumb pass to a bloke in a worse position than him with a defender on him that was the turnover in our half that led to the Pumas try.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

This regarding Wright? If so I absolutely agree. Incredibly talented. Think he needs to be chucked on the wing. I feel like Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) could be a pretty exceptional 15 in time. Not yet though.

Kellaway and Petaia safer options at the back currently IMO.

Completely agree re Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase). He has so many of the running fullback and aerial attributes of izzy and he can probably kick better than Izzy already.
Jorgensen also a future excellent fullback or 13 for me

 

[NCT]

Question re defensive halfback position at scrums - I thought this year we had a law change so that the defending 9 couldn't hang around the back of the scrum to disrupt the 9 who had fed the scrum. Was that just a Super Rugby law change? Asking because White was all over the Argie halfback at scrum time.