Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[Braveheart81]

So what's the plan? Score 40 points in every test?

Improve our defence.

I don't think there are watertight options available who aren't being selected.

Meakes and Hodge are both better tacklers (although I don't think Hodge is an incredible defender) but I don't think either of them provide enough upside in defence to make them better options overall.

I don't think we're a couple of selections away from reliably restricting the All Blacks to under 20 points a game.

 

[Derpus]

Hunt can also cover 11, 12, 13 (maybe), 14, 15 from the bench. Fair bit of utility. Phipps, Hunt, Hodge should be our bench options.

Questions remain over Speight if Naivalu returns. I finally thought Naivalu had made the position his and then he got injured.

Which lock gets the bench spot once Coleman returns. I would think it's Simmons has done enough.

 

[Froggy]

One interesting point on captaincy. At one point in the second half when things got a bit heated, Owens called out Read & Hooper and basically said things had been pretty good but were starting to get a bit over the top, have a talk and deal with it.

Hooper went back, called them all together, called out to a couple of outliers and had a word. Read simply wandered back, said something to a couple of players who happened to be next to him, and basically took no notice of Owen's instruction.

Not making any particular point, except perhaps a certain arrogance? For those on here who are refs, what would your attitude be to that?

 

[mark_s]

9 tries vs the ABs in two games? Who would have thought that was possible at the start of the season?

I reckon the AB's have changed since 2015. The 2011-2015 ABs dissected the opposition and ran away with the game in the last 20 mins. The 2016+ ABs just look to blow their opposition off the park from minute 1 and are prepared to leak some points along the way. Part of it is the change in personnel (Carter to Barrett particularly) but you would have to assume the coaches are driving it.

 

[Lorenzo]

Improve our defence.

I don't think there are watertight options available who aren't being selected.

Meakes and Hodge are both better tacklers (although I don't think Hodge is an incredible defender) but I don't think either of them provide enough upside in defence to make them better options overall.

I don't think we're a couple of selections away from reliably restricting the All Blacks to under 20 points a game.

And you don't even think we ought to try it out? Again, we still lost on Saturday, despite putting up 29 points. That really ought to tell you something more than just how wonderful our attack was.

Beale is not a strong defender, and at 28 he's likely to get worse rather than better. It's unlikely that we will achieve consistently good defensive results with him playing at 12. Yes, he was better on the weekend. If we need him to take pressure off Foley, perhaps he should play 10 with Foley on the bench and an expert defender at 12.

If your preference is to cruise along ranking 3rd or 4th without taking any risks, and I suspect it is, then the current side ought to be able to satisfy that, I suppose.

 

[KOB1987]

So is the answer some different people or better coaching on defence?

Ultimately the same people coached better from juniors up. We obviously can't do much about that with the current crop though.

 

[Derpus]

Ultimately the same people coached better from juniors up. We obviously can't do much about that with the current crop though.

Mick Byrne is certianly trying

 

[cyclopath]

One interesting point on captaincy. At one point in the second half when things got a bit heated, Owens called out Read & Hooper and basically said things had been pretty good but were starting to get a bit over the top, have a talk and deal with it.

Hooper went back, called them all together, called out to a couple of outliers and had a word. Read simply wandered back, said something to a couple of players who happened to be next to him, and basically took no notice of Owen's instruction.

Not making any particular point, except perhaps a certain arrogance? For those on here who are refs, what would your attitude be to that?

Given that Nigel seemed happy to have cosy chats with pretty much any All Black that came up to him, I'm not sure Read should have been too bothered. Nigel even tolerated Read asking him before a scrum about whether he'd give a penalty try if it collapsed, even though the previous scrum had been some time before. Bit cheeky, really.

 

[Scrubber2050]

We don't need more leaders. The more I hear that term the more frustrated I become. Bit different to senior players.

We have a captain and VC. That is enough.

The players are professionals.The HC chooses the game plan. The players know their job that they have to do so need to get on with it.

Something about "Too many chiefs and not enough Indians"

 

[fatprop]

Hopefully not bringing too much hate down on me.
I think our biggest problem is still good leadership. Chek bitching about refs after the game doesn't help.
Still not convinced with Hoops but he did the best job he has done so far with the ref, calm and didn't keep pressing his point.
I think Coleman will be good keeping the forwards working.
I think we need to find some more leaders within the group, Hunt maybe, to keep the team focused and not distracted by Chek.
The other big change we need is a selection panel.

It is funny, he went out of his way to say it wasn't the refs fault, he question some decisions only when pressed, but said it was our fault that we couldn't hold the ball off the kick off and manage the last few minutes

 

[Micheal]

It is funny, he went out of his way to say it wasn't the refs fault, he question some decisions only when pressed, but said it was our fault that we couldn't hold the ball off the kick off and manage the last few minutes

Ugh. So many people have been slamming Cheika for the press conference despite clearly not having actually watched the footage.

If you get your opinion of Cheika from headlines it's obviously going to be a bad one.

 

[dru]

I think you are both being generous to Cheika.

 

[chasmac]

So is the answer some different people or better coaching on defence?

Coaching on defence seems to have been addressed to a degree. IE different setups with less moving parts. The jury is definitely still out but at the very least there has been signs of change. Long way to go if our target is < 3 tries per match.
Personell changes will be the usual debate.
Is Karmichael Hunt available?
What about Korobeite and DHP etc.
I think we have a lock on Genia and TK at the moment. The rest will be debated until the Bled comes home.

 

[TSR]

After having a bad day out last week I see the Broncos called Peter Ryan in to work on their tackling. From what I've heard he is a pretty good coach. Maybe worth bringing in for a period.

 

[Up the Guts]

Referees seem to be calling individual players by names now. Heard Owens call Folau 'Izzy' on the weekend, ugh. Reckon this sort of stuff should be saved for league where the refs know the name of every player otherwise it seems like the ref is too cozy with some players.

 

[Derpus]

Ugh. So many people have been slamming Cheika for the press conference despite clearly not having actually watched the footage.

If you get your opinion from headlines it's obviously going to be a bad one.

fixed slightly.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I reckon the AB's have changed since 2015. The 2011-2015 ABs dissected the opposition and ran away with the game in the last 20 mins. The 2016+ ABs just look to blow their opposition off the park from minute 1 and are prepared to leak some points along the way. Part of it is the change in personnel (Carter to Barrett particularly) but you would have to assume the coaches are driving it.

ABs still trying to find their best 23 in particular the right bench combination.

In that 2011-15 period, the bench impact was excellent because we had genuine game breakers and quality that was good enough to start. B. Barrett was a key player off the bench and now he's a starter.

When Richie was in the side we usually went with a big loose forward on the bench like Vito that was good too.

Another issue that does get overlooked a bit is the retirement of Nonu and Conrad. That combination knew how to play those tight moments in the final quarter.

 

[Dan54]

Ugh. So many people have been slamming Cheika for the press conference despite clearly not having actually watched the footage.

If you get your opinion of Cheika from headlines it's obviously going to be a bad one.

Micheal, I watched the press conference, actually watched both teams press conferences, and sorry he did come across as making ref excuses again!!He even harked back to Auckland last year. I think it was another chance for Cheika to say it was a great test, the Boys went real well, but perhaps the other team was better. I find it quite funny on here that that noone has ever commented on the fact that Chuckles will very seldom give the other team credit for playing well, and I watched most of press conferences from last year against England etc. I know it not a big thing, and I don't really expect a coach to say it on the field at fulltime, but at a press conference I do think he comes across as a bit of a whinger when Wallabies lose.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A lot was made of the front row, but most of the power generated in the scrum come from the 5 players behind the front row, it's the props job to channel that power correctly. On the weekend, I think we saw the effects of playing a lightweight backrow, and one who was quick to disengage. Hanigan peeled off every time, Hooper to his credit had been notorious for staying loose, but now has gone the other direction and stays bound fractionally longer then he should.

Need Timani anchoring that scrum for the power he generates and keeping the locks straight. McMahon isn't a scrummaging 8. Drop Hanigan, move McMahon to blindsided and Timani to 8.. but this may then weaken the lineout

At face value, TOCC, I'd agree that McM, Hooper and Timani would seem to weaken the lineout, but I have seen it reported that Hanigan wasn't used at all in the Bled 2 lineouts, so maybe the third jumper isn't so crucial. Although, having said that, I think Mostert is the best lineout operator I've seen since Victor Matfield. It might prove to be an embarrassing error to go in with only two jumpers.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It seemed like most of our issues evaporated once TPN came on for Moore though.

I agree with you that a bit more weight in the backrow might have helped, but overall our scrum wasn't light.

BH, I reckon the scrum still went backwards after TPN came on. It did seem stronger but still dominated. Wasn't until Kepu, Timani and Rodda came on that I thought they had parity.