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Wallabies v All Blacks Melbourne

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DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Another schoolboy error when we were on the front foot. Not putting the ball in touch. I don't even want to mention the name.

Yeah, that was a definete turning point in the game. Gordon Bray noted that as well, and he was quite correct that the kick was around the time that the Wallabies were well and truly blasted off the park, that 10th-30th minute mark. The kick itself was poor, but it signalled the beginning of the worst footy the Wallabies played.

(Also, a number of posters need avatars. Beware; choose one now, or have the moderators pick you one....)
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I justed rewatched the game, and have many thoughts that I need to get out.

1. The game was a cracker, and really good to watch. Good skills from both sides, plenty of tries yet a good level of physicality.

2. Joubert needs to take some credit for this. He was actually quite good, and I take back my earlier criticisms. No real glaring errors, let the game flow pretty well. I was never screaming at him, which is all I can ask from a ref.

3. The scoreline belied the closeness of the two teams. The ABs played very well, sure. They deserved to win. But they were not the all-conqueirng dominant force that some have made them out to be here.

4. The ABs won the game by converting their opportunities into tries with ruthless efficiency, especially in the first half. Look at the first half tries: Carter charge-down from outside 22, Muliaina after flukish kick from Jane from outside 22, McCaw after ball spilt from ruck outside 22, Jane after their first real attacking foray within the 22. 4 chances, 4 tries. They didn't really threaten other than those 4. This is what they are so good at, and what we struggle at. Look at Giteau's breakout early in the first half- we needed to score a try from that. Maybe not directly from the break, but certainly in the two or three phases that followed. That was where we lacked composure and organisation. As it was, Barnes threw a poorly directed cutout, and all of a sudden Elsom has the ball on the wing 10m behind the gain line with 3 ABs in defence and no support.

5. We are too predictable around the ruck. I can't remember a pick-and-go all night. Pre-game Austin pointed out opportunities one or two passes off the ruck, and clearly Deans viewed that because we stuck to it ruthlessly. And it worked in parts. But once the ABs realised this and adapted to it, we didn't see this and vary our game plan to exploit the fact that their pillar-men were resting on their laurels because they knew they wouldnt need to make a tackle. We missed Cooper badly here- we tried two inside balls all night. One went to JOC (James O'Connor) and he made a half break before slipping and passing off to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and the second went to Beale who overran it and dropped it, but would have been through otherwise. Here the mantra of 'play what's in front of you' clearly was not followed.

6. Mitchell can consider himself a bit unlucky. Not ripped off, not robbed, just a tad unlucky. When Joubert gave his warning to McCaw and Rocky he said he MAY have to give yellow for the next one. It was not an ultimatum, not a guarantee, just a possibility. The AB's were NEVER going to take a quick throw, their were gold shirts fucking everywhere. It was stupid, but I think Joubert had enough wiggle room from his earlier statement to just give Drew a very stern warning.

7. No-one had a shocker. There won't be widespread changes next week. Brown misses tackles, but was our best ball-runner in tight all night, and actually resembled Palu close to the AB line. Barnes was innefectual, but made his tackles and didn't do anything stupid (although he was far too flat when the charge-down occurred). Ma'afu was not as dynamic as last week, but he wasn't cumbersome. I would make two changes to the team for next week- Beale (who looked pretty good in his 15 minutes) to fullback with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to outside, and Hodgson to 6 with Rocky moving to 8 and Brown riding the pine. This reshuffle saves Nathan Sharpe from the axe, because without Brown we really lack ball-running forwards so he gets to stay.

8. The ABs have not been under pressure at all this 3N campaign. I think 8-3 is their biggest deficit so far. The way we win in Wellington is by starting fast, and hopefully getting a bit of luck along the way (a charge down, fluky skilfull act etc) . A bit like the RWC semi. Then we have our tails up and hopefully can hold on. It's a long shot, but not impossible.


Basically I came away from my second viewing not as depressed as I thought I would be. We didn't play too badly, but made a few silly mistakes at crucial times. The best example is Giteau after Franks was binned. He fails to find touch then concedes a very stupid penalty. We obviously face an uphill battle to win next week, but I honestly believe we can beat the ABs in Sydney. A few injuries to NZ wouldnt go astray and we need the bounce of the ball to go our way. But we are not too far off, and I think a few people here have overreacted a touch.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Good summation, Barbarian. I think I need a rewatching to perhaps gain some perspective.
 
R

Rugby Rat

Guest
I thought we went OK. Gitts made some errors when we should have been putting the AB's under the pump. Ummm, at least Gitts is consistant. Every AB's game when we are in it he makes some howlers.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
6. Mitchell can consider himself a bit unlucky. Not ripped off, not robbed, just a tad unlucky. When Joubert gave his warning to McCaw and Rocky he said he MAY have to give yellow for the next one. It was not an ultimatum, not a guarantee, just a possibility. The AB's were NEVER going to take a quick throw, their were gold shirts fucking everywhere. It was stupid, but I think Joubert had enough wiggle room from his earlier statement to just give Drew a very stern warning.

And if my memory serves me correctly he was specifically warning about defensive players slowing down or stopping quick taps.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Yeah, that was a definete turning point in the game. Gordon Bray noted that as well, and he was quite correct that the kick was around the time that the Wallabies were well and truly blasted off the park, that 10th-30th minute mark. The kick itself was poor, but it signalled the beginning of the worst footy the Wallabies played.

(Also, a number of posters need avatars. Beware; choose one now, or have the moderators pick you one....)

I'd love to put one up, but I don't see where to do it in my user control panel.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
I4. The ABs won the game by converting their opportunities into tries with ruthless efficiency, especially in the first half. Look at the first half tries: Carter charge-down from outside 22, Muliaina after flukish kick from Jane from outside 22, McCaw after ball spilt from ruck outside 22, Jane after their first real attacking foray within the 22. 4 chances, 4 tries. They didn't really threaten other than those 4. This is what they are so good at, and what we struggle at. Look at Giteau's breakout early in the first half- we needed to score a try from that. Maybe not directly from the break, but certainly in the two or three phases that followed. That was where we lacked composure and organisation. As it was, Barnes threw a poorly directed cutout, and all of a sudden Elsom has the ball on the wing 10m behind the gain line with 3 ABs in defence and no support.

Agree with the highlighted. It was a good break by Giteau, and doesn't happen nearly enough these days. He needs to take on the line more. BTW if you had scored the scoreboard pressure would have been there at least and would have changed the game somewhat.

Not a bad read barbarian. Almost Lee Grant-ish :)

The ABs are by no means an 80 minute machine by any stretch. But your point that we have turned opportunities into points so far this 3Ns is the key one. Our attack was interesting, that we really didn't get alot out of Nonu and Smith in this test, but both played very well vs the Boks. We seemed to rely heavily on McCaw and mealamu's ball carrying, where it has been kaino and Thorn in past tests.

The ABs have built tremendous experience now all over the park. It amazes me when I see some of those test cap numbers against guys like Carter, Rok, Nonu, McCaw, Woodcock, Mealamu - it may seem like they've been around forever, yet I never think they are near the end, but are racking up huge numbers of caps. That experience helps them get an edge in the test arena, "push the envelope", "dark arts" or even "cheat", call it what you will - it's so important in the modern game of gifted athletes, technology and structured defenses.

OZ simply do not have that experience so aren't working as a team for solid periods throughout the 80 minutes.
 

Top Bloke

Ward Prentice (10)
That was good Work Barbarian - only concern I have is:

"The way we win in Wellington is by starting fast, and hopefully getting a bit of luck along the way"

You'll need more than luck to win in Wellington - The game is in Christchurch ;-)
 
R

Rugby Rat

Guest
Mmmm. Agreed that Gitts plays well then probably gets bashed into a few brain explosions and Barnes probably lacks vision. However since Gitts has been at 10 or 12 we've had a lot of sideways movement ending in a 1 on 3.
 

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
Barnes was innefectual, but made his tackles and didn't do anything stupid (although he was far too flat when the charge-down occurred).

In the second half in put through a stupid kick when we where 22 out and had beal and JOC (James O'Connor) outside in a two on two. Barnes is awful at attack.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
In the second half in put through a stupid kick when we where 22 out and had beal and JOC (James O'Connor) outside in a two on two. Barnes is awful at attack.

He's not awful. He doesn't set the world alight though. And he put through the silly kick partially because we had the advantage and nothing was happening, so it wasn't a completely brainless move.
 

da_grubster

Ted Fahey (11)
I justed rewatched the game, and have many thoughts that I need to get out.
6. Mitchell can consider himself a bit unlucky. Not ripped off, not robbed, just a tad unlucky. When Joubert gave his warning to McCaw and Rocky he said he MAY have to give yellow for the next one. It was not an ultimatum, not a guarantee, just a possibility. The AB's were NEVER going to take a quick throw, their were gold shirts fucking everywhere. It was stupid, but I think Joubert had enough wiggle room from his earlier statement to just give Drew a very stern warning.
.

BaaBaa, wrong. Joubert said that he will escalate to yellow cards if he needs to. I am just watching him discuss this with the two captains now. Interestingly, the camera sees Rocky walk back saying nothing and then go to McCaw he is barking out orders about yellow cards etc. Did Rocky relay the warning to the rest of the team. On the evidence of the telecast, it seems not.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
I think that there's little doubt the All Blacks are a better team than us. But I think we can do better than the scoreline suggests. Remembering the game, what really stood out to me as key differences between the two sides:

1. Restarts

The All Blacks' restarts were, simply, awesome, whereas we never really even challenged on ours. Where this really hit is that whenever we seemed to score points, the All Blacks immediately reposnded, mostly by either stealing the ball back from the restart, or the next phase (Barnes' kick being charged down). The beauty of the All Black restarts is that they were not too high (such as to allow the pod to get set and jump - although one time Mumm did get set, he dropped it), and not too low or hard (so the chaser could get there and compete). Immediately scoring points after the other team has will lift one team, and deflate the other.

2. Clinical execution

The All Blacks transferred breaks and pressure into points much better than the Wallabies. Against teams like the All Blacks you can't afford to let chances go - for example, J'OC failing to find Horne on his outside after Gits made a break early in the game. Very rarely do you see the All Blacks make a break and not find their support, if it's there and in a good position. The All Blacks seemed to gain all too easy metres around the ruck, then spun the ball wide and found plenty of space - and they looked great doing it, too. Australia's number 13 and back three needd to do a better job of finishing off opportunities. (Barbarian probably put this better than me a few posts above.) Additionally, how often do you see the All Blacks foolishly kick away front foot ball with an attempted chip/grubber?

3. Metres around the ruck, on attack and defence

The Wallabies had a lot more aggression at ruck time which was great to see, and they had a few moments where they dominated the All Blacks and forced some turnovers. Problem is, at other times the All Blacks made easy metres around the rucks. There was no consistency. In contrast, the All Blacks rarely let the Wallabies get easy metres, and if the Wallabies pinched some, then the All Blacks tightened up after 2 or so phases. It seems once the other team gets a roll on around the ruck, the Wallaby forwards tend to hang out in the back line rather than come in and contest in tight, either slowing down the ball or dragging in a pillar and post to stop easy metres. They need to tighten up once the other team starts to get on the front foot, but not lose the aggression they are starting to show. On attack, one of the reasons Genia and Burgess often take so long is the forwards take too long to set up phase play from static ball. It shouldn't take more than a few seconds for the initial phase, and the second phase should be immediately ready to go.

The mass pessimism isn't suprising, but I think a lot of people think the Wallabies are better than they are. We don't have replacements for Horwill, Alexander, Palu, or even Cooper, Ioane, maybe Mortlock, etc. The All Blacks, in contrast, can call up test quality replacements for just about every position (bar openside), we can't. Knee-jerk reactions calling for the second tier players to be replaced by third tier players is unlikely to work, just like blaming the coach for the failing of the players we have. Barnes is not a creative break/try creating player like Cooper, so you can't expect him to play like that.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
In the second half in put through a stupid kick when we where 22 out and had beal and JOC (James O'Connor) outside in a two on two. Barnes is awful at attack.

Thats why Giteau should be at 12. Sure they switch around, but Barnes at ten means Giteau sets up that 2 on 2, and more times than not will draw a defender. With Minimal Crab Mode engaged, he can draw a man and turn that 2 on 2 into a 2 on 1.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
BaaBaa, wrong. Joubert said that he will escalate to yellow cards if he needs to. I am just watching him discuss this with the two captains now. Interestingly, the camera sees Rocky walk back saying nothing and then go to McCaw he is barking out orders about yellow cards etc. Did Rocky relay the warning to the rest of the team. On the evidence of the telecast, it seems not.

Welcome dg. He still doesn't give an ultimatum though, does he. I am not railing against the card here, he certainly mentions 'slowing the game' and 'yellow card' in the same breath so anyone who does anything from that point is an idiot who deserves what he gets. Just thought it was a tad harsh to call Mitchell on it when he did.
 

Jethro Tah

Bob Loudon (25)
Watching the highlights last night, I replayed the "Carter" knock down try in slow motion a few times and am sure it was knocked forward by Nonu then picked up by Carter thus should have been no try. I managed to freeze the footage to capture an image of the ball having passed Carter and just before it hits Nonu's boot. The kiwi commentators were also a bit suspicious, and you can see Carter and Nonu give each other a very cheeky smile after the try too. No game changer but it gave me a little comfort when searching for "what ifs". Anyone else see it?
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Watching the highlights last night, I replayed the "Carter" knock down try in slow motion a few times and am sure it was knocked forward by Nonu then picked up by Carter thus should have been no try. I managed to freeze the footage to capture an image of the ball having passed Carter and just before it hits Nonu's boot. The kiwi commentators were also a bit suspicious, and you can see Carter and Nonu give each other a very cheeky smile after the try too. No game changer but it gave me a little comfort when searching for "what ifs". Anyone else see it?

IMO the incident is irrelevant but the try itself was undoubtedly a game changer. Barnes never should have given them the opportunity but it's history now.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Paris Tah - it (the first All Black try) looked suspicious in the first replay, but would've looked fine live to the ref. It's often too hard for them to pick that sort of stuff up and you just have to live with it. I was blowing up more about the try where AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is tackled, and Smith doesn't roll away - instead Smith forces it out on the ground and they score...I think it was silly play from Smith as the All Blacks would've gotten the turnover without his illegal play and I thought he had given away a silly penalty, but I was proven wrong when the ball came out and the ref did nothing. The thing about that try as well - the Wallabies put themselves under pressure as AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) should've either kicked or passed to his man infield. In his defence, I bet he was hiding on the wing due to just having been knocked out, but still...

Sadly, these mistakes didn't really matter too much, as the All Blacks were simply too good for us.
 
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