Wallabies use of Cooper?

[Scotty]

I am starting to think the wallabies should use Cooper in the same way that link currently is. Defending at fullback. Not just from a QC (Quade Cooper) defensive point if view but more to get width in the counter attack. He is also one of the better catches if the high ball going around. Imagine a back three of Cooper, Beale and ioane or Cooper, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) with some space at the back! The question is how would this be achieved and who would defend at 10?

You could have a backline with JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 in attack and 10 in defense but would have to have one of the wings defend at 13 while Beale switches to wing in defense. Mitchell or ioane I guess although turner might be a good option in this set up. Or you have Beale on the wing the whole game with JOC (James O'Connor) or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback in attack and 10 in defense.

 

[Slim 293]

So much shifting around to accommodate one players weakness...

Plus Beale would be the better counter attacking option at fullback anyways...

 

[GC]

Makes sense to have Cooper back and JOC (James O'Connor) (if hes playing wing) in the line. JOC (James O'Connor) isn't great under the highball, Cooper is. I reckon that's what Deans will do. Beale's position won't change.

 

[Slim 293]

If we have all our backline players at the back there'll be no one up front left to defend...

But I guess if Higginbotham gets selected he'll be hanging out in the backline anyways...

 

[Sully]

I've said it before. If Cooper is out 5/8 then Beale or JOC (James O'Connor) has to go. Too many liabilities.

 

[Slim 293]

I've said it before. If Cooper is out 5/8 then Beale or JOC (James O'Connor) has to go. Too many liabilities.

I would rather have Beale at fullback, than Cooper at flyhalf...

But both are going to be in the starting xv anyways...

 

[GC]

Still trolling Reds players & fans in every thread, Slim? Doesn't that get tiresome?

 

[Scotty]

So much shifting around to accommodate one players weakness...

Plus Beale would be the better counter attacking option at fullback anyways...

Think about Cooper taking it at fullback and passing it 30m across the field to Beale to give him even more space to counter. The width that Cooper can achieve in a counter attack is IMO a bigger reason to have him defending at 15 than to hide his defense at 10.

 

[Jnor]

I've said it before. If Cooper is out 5/8 then Beale or JOC (James O'Connor) has to go. Too many liabilities.

The only real liability here is Cooper's defence as far as I can see Sully, you're a perfectionist

 

[tigerland12]

I don't think it is such a matter that Quade struggles in defence, but the way he counter attacks, kicks and is under the high ball. I think he has been superb in that covering/full-back role for the Reds. I think it would be great to have Beale and Cooper attacking from deep....but it probably causes too much re-shuffling in defence

 

[Slim 293]

Too much reshuffling will cause confusion amongst the players...

"I go to fullback in defence, except when we're attacking, but only when we're attacking from a scrum otherwise I shift to outside centre, but if saturn is aligned with jupiter then I play on the wing"

The last thing the Wallabies want to implement is the Brumbies' "tri-half" system...

At times Cooper (like many flyhalves do) will drop back to fullback when Beale has been involved in a play, but Cooper is going to have to learn to make his tackles...

 

[cyclopath]

So the sensible thing, if I read this right, is to exclude Beale or O'Connor, on the basis they aren't the strongest defenders (but neither are they weak, I might add) so that the unwillingness of Quade Cooper to tackle can be accommodated? Remove one of our best attacking players, so that one doesn't have to decide to tackle?
Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

[Dumbledore]

So the sensible thing, if I read this right, is to exclude Beale or O'Connor, on the basis they aren't the strongest defenders (but neither are they weak, I might add) so that the unwillingness of Quade Cooper to tackle can be accommodated? Remove one of our best attacking players, so that one doesn't have to decide to tackle?
Yep, makes perfect sense.

No no no cyclo. Quade is the bestest counter-attacker ever, that's why he's hiding at the back.

 

[cyclopath]

I want all of them there. They all offer a lot in counter-attack. I don't buy the furphy that Beale and O'Connor are poor defenders either - Beale in particular has added a lot of starch in defence and does his job well. I just fail to see the logic that we might have to leave one out so that Quade doesn't have to bother with defending. It's laughable.

 

[GC]

Everyone claims that JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't see enough off the ball at full-back for the Force. A straight swap for Quade and JOC (James O'Connor) when defending is simple; JOC (James O'Connor) is a great counter attacker from turn-over ball in the tight; Quade is great from the back and safe under the high ball. If it wasn't for Cooper's distribution game, which is the best in the world currently, he may well be more suited to full-back or wing full time. He's not slow as he demonstrated last night.

There's a lot more to it than Cooper's crap defence, which seems to have improved a fair bit this year anyway.

 

[Sully]

My point was that Beale has not covered himself with glory while defending at 5/8 and JOC (James O'Connor) is a midget. With the three of them in the side there is a defensive weakness at 5/8.

 

[GC]

I want all of them there. They all offer a lot in counter-attack. I don't buy the furphy that Beale and O'Connor are poor defenders either - Beale in particular has added a lot of starch in defence and does his job well. I just fail to see the logic that we might have to leave one out so that Quade doesn't have to bother with defending. It's laughable.

JPC, Beale and Diggers are all as rubbish under the high ball as Cooper is at defending. They need to be hidden in the front line

 

[darkhorse]

It could work. However, you could see in the Crusaders v Reds game that there was alot of confusion about fullback there already. QC (Quade Cooper) was great when he was back there, but as soon as he returned a kick there was a gaping hole at the back for Carter to punt the ball to. No one was dropping back to cover fullback and I think this was a symptom of players not being perfectly familiar with an unusual system.

Carter must have turned the reds around 5 or 6 times with easy kicks, because there was no fullback. Although one could argue that with Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), QC (Quade Cooper) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there will be no lack of someone wanting to drop and cover fullback.

 

[cyclopath]

It could work. However, you could see in the Crusaders v Reds game that there was alot of confusion about fullback there already. QC (Quade Cooper) was great when he was back there, but as soon as he returned a kick there was a gaping hole at the back for Carter to punt the ball to. No one was dropping back to cover fullback and I think this was a symptom of players not being perfectly familiar with an unusual system.

Carter must have turned the reds around 5 or 6 times with easy kicks, because there was no fullback. Although one could argue that with Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), QC (Quade Cooper) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there will be no lack of someone wanting to drop and cover fullback.

And you know that sides who kick better than the Wallabies (most Tier 1 nations) will be dissecting that information. They won't care that it works against the Force, Tahs, Rebels and Brumbies, as they all are generally poor tactical kickers. But good kickers like Carter and some of the Saffer boys will be harder to deal with. And a system of swapping is inherently risky if someone is caught in the wrong place when they zig instead of zagging. I know it has worked for the Reds, but that does not mean it will work as well internationally.

 

[waratahjesus]

does it matter, we should be concentrating on getting a forward pack that works or the backs wont factor an inch.