Wallabies Trinations Squad

[Slim 293]

Is everyone feeling that Beau Robinson should be in the squad somewhere? Or is Hodgson preferred for his versatility?

I like Samo as no.8 as well - he is really a shining light with Palu injury worries.

Robinson probably will be in the squad somewhere... whether or not he gets any game time is another thing...

Deans isn't afraid of stocking up in certain positions... one year he seemed to have 4 openside flankers and 4 loosehead props in his squad...

 

[high tower]

JOC (James O'Connor) and Digby are the likely wings in Mitchell's absence.

JOC (James O'Connor) and Digby are the likely wings even if Mitchell's available.
Mitchell was in when Digby was out injured, not sure he would get picked in front of him now coming back form 8 weeks out and Digby is in form. No way mitchell will get picked in front of JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing.
Digby offers a crash ball/get over the advantage line option when his wing is the short side also.

 

[Slim 293]

JOC (James O'Connor) and Digby are the likely wings even if Mitchell's available.
Mitchell was in when Digby was out injured, not sure he would get picked in front of him now coming back form 8 weeks out and Digby is in form. No way mitchell will get picked in front of JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing.
Digby offers a crash ball/get over the advantage line option when his wing is the short side also.

Mitchell would be first wing picked.

Digby would be second.

 

[barbarian]

Barb, I apologise, I didn't realise you were such an authority as to be able to designate players - comparing say a 2011 Davies and a 2011 Mitchell - as 'clearly inferior'. I must do better next time in recognising such obvious truths. Your recent blog essay on Wallaby selection dilemmas and choices makes it clear just how black and white and easy these player calls are.

On point: I did not advocate 'dropping Mitchell for Davies', didn't even go close. I noted what I suspect is Davies' 2011 improvement in defence that may now place him above Mitchell in that department (btw I think Davies is quicker than Mitchell as well. IMO, Mitchell's defensive frailties and his less-than-world-class speed were pretty clear when he failed to both tackle and then chase down Ashton at Twickenham v England 2010 when Ashton made that near all-of-field try). For the record: I rate Mitchell highly, but he is far from perfect in my view.

Turning to the point re Deans 'innovating', again I did not say 'drop Mitchell', but I am of the school of observers that believe that it would not be unwise to conduct some considered experiments in different backline Wallaby combinations this year v Samoa or in the 3N. Moreover, we have the practical possibility that Mitchell may not be able to return to match fitness this year, but let us hope that he does. Given the real uncertainties re his fitness, we certainly need to assess credible Aus winger choices now, I see nothing wrong with that.

Well I apologise for misreading you, but you did not make yourself very clear at all. I was not the only one to take your post as meaning Davies was superior to Mitchell.

Regardless of your point, I still maintain Davies is clearly inferior to Mitchell. The guy played well, but one of his tries was an intercept, one was a nice finish after a brilliantly set-up move, the last a fairly straightforward run to the line through some feeble Stephen Brett defence. I would have him in a Wallaby squad but he is no Drew Mitchell.

 

[DPK]

Mitchell would be first wing picked.

Digby would be second.

That's complete rubbish. Ioane would be picked first, Mitchell second.

 

[TOCC]

there are two wing positions... how about they are both 1st picked

 

[DPK]

 

[Lindommer]

...I still maintain Davies is clearly inferior to Mitchell.

In July 2011 a fit Davies is clearly superior to an injured Mitchell. For Drew to regain fitness AND form in the next few months to catch up to Rocket Rod is a big ask, methinks probably too much.

 

[TSR]

I had been rating Higginbotham as a test 6 for most of the season, but last few games he has gone missing, I think he should be an inclusion in the squad, but bench at the most.

Another point of discussion is how Cooper will play in defence. He has been brilliant attacking from fullback and it would be great if he could replicate that style for the Wallabies. But then you have Beale who is one of the best counter-attacking players in the game. In a perfect world everyone would shift in one, but I doubt that would happen.

Tigerland, I agree it would be terrific if the Wallabies could use Cooper's kick returns. Cooper's kick returns have set up so much attack for the Reds, not to mention dug us out of a few tight spots, I would think this would be worth a try. I also doubt Deans will go this way, but would like to see it in action.

One of the things with the Reds, is that they have either Lucas or Jono Lance, two normal 5/8s, standing at 10 in defence. So they are familiar with using turnover ball to counterattack.

You can't do a straight swap with Beale - as you say his kick returns are also excellent, so that would be pointless. But if O'Conner is at 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and Ioane on the wing, Cooper could shuffle to the wing in defence, with O'Conner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Ioane defending at 10, 12 & 13. This leaves Ioane free to roam in attack, which he does best from the wing, but he is still experienced at defending in the 13 channel. On turnover ball O'Conner is at first receiver, a role he is familiar with also.

We then have teams kicking to a back three of Cooper, Beale and Mitchell/Morahan/Davies.

 

[Braveheart.]

TSR - I like it. The defencive patter, that is.

Deans uses a 'back three' concept in defence anyway... imagine Beale and Cooper running counter attack together in tandem.

EDIT

I forgot JOC (James O'Connor).

Jesus.

I have a stiffy at the thought.

 

[tigerland12]

Oh god if you had Cooper, Beale and Mitchell/O'Connor coming at you from a kick return you would be shitting yourself.

I really hope Deans trials it, it has worked so well for Queensland and would work even better with Beale there with Quade.

 

[Joe Blow]

The concept of the 5/8 hanging back in defense to cover the kick is not purely the domain of Quade Cooper.
Being that the 5/8 or flyhalf/1st 5 is often the best, or one of the best, kickers in the side he will often slip to the back in defense.
More often than not Carter receives kicks at the back for the Crusaders.
Drew Mitchell also is a fantastic kick returner in addition to Cooper, Beale JOC (James O'Connor) and Ioane.
I doubt we will see other teams kicking to us much this year.

 

[Groucho]

The concept of the 5/8 hanging back in defense to cover the kick is not purely the domain of Quade Cooper.
Being that the 5/8 or flyhalf/1st 5 is often the best, or one of the best, kickers in the side he will often slip to the back in defense.
More often than not Carter receives kicks at the back for the Crusaders.
Drew Mitchell also is a fantastic kick returner in addition to Cooper, Beale JOC (James O'Connor) and Ioane.
I doubt we will see other teams kicking to us much this year.

Genia and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are also talented kick returners.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

better work on the lineout, I can see our opposition putting it into the nosebleeds

 

[Braveheart.]

better work on the lineout, I can see our opposition putting it into the nosebleeds

I'm not too stressed about the lineout.

Sharpie, Big Kev & Elsom are known lineout jumpers... Throw Vickerman and McCalman or Samo into the squad and you have a reasonable lineout.

Even Pocock straps up the legs for tests nowadays.

 

[Scotty]

better work on the lineout, I can see our opposition putting it into the nosebleeds

Which normally means they have given up some ground with their kick, whereby Cooper can run a set play off the back of the lineout with JOC (James O'Connor), Davies, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Digby and Beale as running options. Not sure it is any less scary for the opposition.

But backline attack isn't going to be the area that loses (or wins) us the RWC.

 

[Scotty]

Tigerland, I agree it would be terrific if the Wallabies could use Cooper's kick returns. Cooper's kick returns have set up so much attack for the Reds, not to mention dug us out of a few tight spots, I would think this would be worth a try. I also doubt Deans will go this way, but would like to see it in action.

One of the things with the Reds, is that they have either Lucas or Jono Lance, two normal 5/8s, standing at 10 in defence. So they are familiar with using turnover ball to counterattack.

You can't do a straight swap with Beale - as you say his kick returns are also excellent, so that would be pointless. But if O'Conner is at 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and Ioane on the wing, Cooper could shuffle to the wing in defence, with O'Conner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Ioane defending at 10, 12 & 13. This leaves Ioane free to roam in attack, which he does best from the wing, but he is still experienced at defending in the 13 channel. On turnover ball O'Conner is at first receiver, a role he is familiar with also.

We then have teams kicking to a back three of Cooper, Beale and Mitchell/Morahan/Davies.

I have suggest this a few times before, but it is more likely if Cooper moves in defense it will be to 15 with Beale at 14. Cooper can bring more width to the counter attack from there and give Beale more space.

And for those that think it will get too complicated, have a look at what the Reds do. The line up like this in attack:

10, 12, 13,
11, 14,
15

And this in set piece defense:

15, 13, 12
11, 14
10

And two of the guys that are moving around are 22 and 21 years old! If they can handle it, surely anyone selected for the wallabies can!?

 

[fatprop]

TSR - I like it. The defencive patter, that is.

Deans uses a 'back three' concept in defence anyway... imagine Beale and Cooper running counter attack together in tandem.

EDIT

I forgot JOC (James O'Connor).

Jesus.

I have a stiffy at the thought.

The Crusaders have been using a 4 man kick return team quite often ............. Cooper, Beale, Digby and O'Connor

 

[fatprop]

On Robinson, if Pocock was wounded, Robinson would be a great option to start.

With a fit Pocock, I just don't see Robinson adding value to the squad. Pocock is an 80 minute player, there are better options for the bench cover with greater flexibility such as Hodgson (at 7, 8 & 6 as needed).

 

[tragic]

For Drew to regain fitness AND form in the next few months to catch up to Rocket Rod is a big ask, methinks probably too much.

Drew on twitter tonight
"Everything went as planned today at the mechanics so I'll be running next week.. Doc couldn't be happier with how things are going.."