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Wallabies Middle age meltdown?

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disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Robbie Deans's Wallabies youth policy is forcing experienced Australia rugby players to look to Europe
By Wayne Smith
The Australian January 26, 2011 7:44AM
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Fresh approach ... but is Robbie Deans pushing players away? Source: Franck Fife / AFP
Age has always been jealous of youth, but indications are that more than just petty envy is at work within the ranks of middle-aged Wallabies these days.

There is genuine dismay among players in the 26-29 years age bracket that their hard-won experience might now actually be working against them, that at any moment they could forfeit their position to the newest bright young thing.

Professional athletes are notoriously insecure at the best of times and within the current Wallabies that unease is magnified by the fact that the four-year rugby cycle has worked its way around to another World Cup.

But even making allowances for these individual anxieties, there is something else at work here, something wider - a fear that a vital element of the Wallabies' culture will be lost.

The elders in the Australia side have always been the guardians of the flame, the setters of standards, the hugely respected role models for the younger players coming in.

In no other rugby-playing country has experience been more prized. Of the 18 players in history who have earned 100 Test caps, Australia has the most centurions - George Gregan, George Smith, Steve Larkham and David Campese. Of the all-time top 50 cap-earners, nine are Australians; of the top 100, a record 16 are Australians.

By contrast, only seven players from South Africa and nine from New Zealand figure in the top 100 list.

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There is a reason for this, of course. Australia's playing numbers have always been modest compared to the other rugby heavyweights.

Where other nations might have had the luxury of depth of talent to be able to jettison quality players temporarily out of form, Australia has tended to respect the ability of its best players to ride out form slumps.

That player longevity has been one of the key factors behind Australia's success in the professional era. Of all the major teams in world rugby, the Wallabies have most benefited from the game's transition in 1996 from amateurism to professionalism.

During the amateur era, the Wallabies' Test success rate was 44.5 per cent. Five other countries, New Zealand (71.2), South Africa (63.9), France and Wales (52.7) and England (50.3) had higher winning percentages.

But since 1996 - the period in which all of those 16 Australians mentioned above, save for Michael Lynagh and Campese, earned the bulk of their caps - Australia's win rate has leapt to 63.6 per cent, the biggest jump of any team.

The five countries that have contributed most players to the top 100 most-capped list rank among the six biggest improvers from the amateur age to the professional.

No doubt other factors are at work in other countries, but the correlation between experience and success is irrefutable where the Wallabies are concerned.

Suddenly, however, Robbie Deans is taking another path entirely, pinning his hopes almost entirely on youth, with half the side that played in the final Test of the spring tour aged 22 or younger.

Granted, there can be no arguing with the fact that they did the job spectacularly, blitzing a strangely dispirited France with five late tries to win 59-16, but until the 47-minute mark of that bizarre Test, the lead paragraphs of match reports all would have focused on the fact that Australia's scrum had capitulated again.

It may be that Deans is on the right track with the current player group he has at his disposal. At the risk of seeming to contradict myself, I believe he is steering a course that could well take the Wallabies to the World Cup final.

But he needs to beware. He is running the risk of losing his older and middle-aged players by constantly coming down in favour of youth.

Losing them in terms of morale in the first instance, but losing them in a physical sense as well, with just about every player in the side over the age of 26 giving serious thought to taking a European contract.

None will speak out publicly and who can blame them in a World Cup year? But there is widespread dismay at how Matt Giteau, who has given Australia solid service over a decade and 91 Tests, has been treated. After being told he had to rediscover his mojo, Giteau was dumped to the bench for the Italy Test.

Every senior player recognised the significance of Giteau not playing that match. He has made no secret of the fact that this will be his last year of Test rugby. When he didn't play against Italy, it all but ended his dream of reaching 100 Tests.

No one is owed anything, of course, but equally there is no need to snub Australia's most experienced back. Small wonder Giteau didn't even bother to contact the Australian Rugby Union before making up his mind to go to France at the end of 2011.

And yet, of all the many Wallabies I have spoken to in recent days, there is not a single player who believes Giteau's value to the Australia side is at an end. Even if they did believe that, they still don't like what they're seeing.

As one senior Wallabies player put it: "It's good for an organisation to show respect for blokes who give good service ... it promotes a culture of long service. And it's important to preserve that culture."

It's a culture that is being lost. The young generation of whiz-kids is enjoying instant gratification. But how long can that last?

And then what?

This article from foxsports, a little over the top if you ask me the player managers must have some friends in the media i'm pretty confident that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Moore & Berrick Barnes will still be going around in Wallaby gold come the Lions tour in 2013.

Giteau & Burgess I'm not so sure but it's not because they're over 25.
 
N

Newter

Guest
Nah, Wayne Smith would have phoned around to confirm this. IN fact, he says so in the article. If senior players are pissed at the treatment of Giteau, that's a big problem.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Wayne Smith misses the point (unless I missed it) that the Wallabies had tenure in the past because there were so few others who were clearly better than they were. Other things being more or less equal the more experienced guys were retained because they had been there and done that and knew how to play in big games.

I recent years however we have had more good young players than we had before - especially backs. When Giteau signs his contract there will be a big moan as though it was something new but we have talked about his departure for a couple of years now on this forum - and he has been dropping hints too.

You have to hand it to George Smith. He got out at the right time: before the general public knew he was no.2.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
The thing is, if the more senior players were getting it done, they'd still be getting selected. They didn't and the coach had no choice but to punt on youth. It's not like we were world beaters in 2008/9. That's why I reckon this story is a beat up. Yet another reason why I have little time for the rugby press in this country. We're either the best in the world without proving it or in terminal decline in their eyes.

And one more thing: if Gits had played like we know he can over the last 12 months, would anyone be questioning his place in the team? He's been ordinary in that time and Barnes deserved his place more. Simple as that.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
its on thing TBH to say the senior players wernt getting it done but we have booted them and promoted a team that isnt getting it done either. occasional wins here and there against the good teams is easily equalled out.

most of these young "talents" have lost alot of games of rugby at top level. the reds minus last year and the force players must be winning at well below 50 percent of the first grade games played yet we think there going to step up in pressure situations?
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I would argue that there was a big step up in 2010 over 2009. The year before last, we had a record of 5-8-1, whereas last year it was 9-5 and with a young team. There was also the issue of some senior players like Morts being crocked and younger blokes needing to be put in to replace them. It's worked in my opinion.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I think in the past some Wallabies were held on to far too long and a very good pretender wasn't given opportunity to show what he could have done. Case in point being Gregan V Whitaker.

So have a look at the "youngsters" who have debuted and suggest who was actually better and fit on form from the S14.

JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper - maybe Hynes and Turner. So the selection of these blokes is really a call by the coach/selectors (and I still think JOC (James O'Connor) is not a wing) but I cannot think of any other senior players who really deserved to be selected over them.

Genia and Burgess are respectively still the best 9's and Burgess has to do a lot more ball work and speed at the ruck work to even maintain his current position.

Pocock is clearly challenging Mcaw as the best 7 in the game so regardless of age he would have been starting in front of Smith this year simply because his form demanded it.

The only place we could argue about seniority being an issue is in the Front row. The selection of Ma'afu, Daley and S. Finger against all indications of form and then continuing to do so in the face of their dire failure at scrum time is the only place that the "youth" policy can be questioned. In fact I have argued a few times Deans held onto some senior players far beyond the time where they had been proved not to perform at the highest level such as Chis and Giteau.

If "senior" players are indeed upset in the ranks it would have to be much more than the generational change and I cannot see one who has been dropped who has really demanded selection (apart from as I said the front row).
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Agree with all of that Gnostic. The only area where I think there is some controversy over selection is the front row and the props at that. I can't think of too many other positions where an older player is being denied their "rightful" place. It's hard to argue against a lot of the young blokes who have come into the team. Most of them have done a fantastic job and in some cases, transformed our play.
 
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Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Suddenly, however, Robbie Deans is taking another path entirely, pinning his hopes almost entirely on youth, with half the side that played in the final Test of the spring tour aged 22 or younger.

Granted, there can be no arguing with the fact that they did the job spectacularly, blitzing a strangely dispirited France with five late tries to win 59-16, but until the 47-minute mark of that bizarre Test,

What an absolute crock of ordure! How long are we going to dine out on France's half hour of total capitulation.

The spring tour was hardly a triumphal procession through Europe. We are demonstrating a capacity for self delusion based on remarkably short term memory.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
I would hope that if you phoned around a team you wouldn't find members saying, "yeah, fuck him".

Regardless of the player's form, or future, it wouldn't be a great culture, would it?

The article defeats itself.

Newter - players saying they don't like what they see with regards to Giteau's form slump and dropping is also very different from saying "senior players are pissed at the treatment of Giteau"
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
the most disturbing thing is that all indications seem to be robbie deans is going to be involved with aus rugby beyond the world cup.
with the lions tour a couple of years on, 27-29 year olds surely have a carrot, so if deans is to blame for them leaving they must know something we dont.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Who are all the 27-29 year olds that we are losing?

Huia Edmonds (4th Choice Wallaby hooker) is the only definite so far. The rest is speculation from that agent beat up in the SMH
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Who are all the 27-29 year olds that we are losing?

Huia Edmonds (4th Choice Wallaby hooker) is the only definite so far. The rest is speculation from that agent beat up in the SMH
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
the whole thread is about rumours isnt it gags (sorry, i know gagr doesnt do rumours)
bit rich to call people on it.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Its a beat up that happens every 12months, last year it was all about losing Hynes, Palu, Ioane etc etc

This article is based on the fundamental basis that Matt Giteau was dropped to the bench for the Wallabies , now apparently the ARU are showing him the door yet the article also specifies that Giteau made the decision to go to France without even consulting the ARU, seems a contradiction right there..

Drew Mitchell is the other player with itchy feet, well its no lie that he has shown he is more then happy to move between teams(Reds, Force Waratahs), likewise with Rocky Elsom...

The reality of the situation is, the lack of senior players in the Wallabies at the moment corresponds directly with the poor form of the Wallabies between 2004 and 2009, record losing streaks, record losses and RWC capitulations are evidence of this. Many of the players who came through that time were not good enough for international level, , which is simple the reason that they arent in the Wallabies squad now.

There is also the fact that we lost a lot of the regular wallabies at the time have dropped off the radar for other reasons, Hugh McMenimen, Lote Tuqiri, Cameron Shepherd, Mark Gerrard, Clyde Rathbone, Dan Vickerman, Al Baxter, Matt Dunning, Greg Holmes, Guy Shepherdson, Nic Henderson, and Morgan Turinui were all regular Wallabies in 2006 and would fill the bracket of middle aged and elder statesmen.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
The rise of Peter Hynes disproves this article. Ben Alexander also. Players selected for their first cap at middle age in rugby terms. Anybody who can not see the Rise of Pocock was a great piece of succession planning is blind. George Smith being the fine team man he is would of made his intentions clear with Robbie Deans a long time ago before he announced his retirement. The whole 2009 EOY tour with the rotation of the two was a hand over. Pocock has shined but a lot of credit should be leveled at George Smith for his unselfishness.

The whole article is just shit stirring about Giteau who got more than a fair run off his name more so than his form. Several players are entering the second half of their careers and show no signs of being on the outer such as Stephen Moore, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Robinson.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Wayne Smith is just being manipulative. Players will always tend to show solidarity with their group. If a question is asked one way, then players can easily be manipulated into showing solidarity for a senior player, which can then be spun into an implied criticism of the coach and his selection policy. If the same question is asked another way, then players can equally easily be manipulated into showing solidarity for the coach. It depends what story the journalist wants to write that day.
 
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