Wallabies have a drinking problem?

[Muglair]

I think Terry J makes the good point that in a well functioning team McKenzie never had to be involved. He might be the only one on this tour who really understands what culture is required and he has just had to pick up the pieces.

Also amazing that these guys are out on the piss until 345am and we do not get to hear about it on Twitter Facebook etc. Have to hand it to the Irish, they will never spoil anyone's party.

JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) sober at 4am at Maccas. Who would have thought that 5 months later we would all be saying that they were relatively responsible?

 

[Hawko]

I think Terry J makes the good point that in a well functioning team McKenzie never had to be involved. He might be the only one on this tour who really understands what culture is required and he has just had to pick up the pieces.

JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) sober at 4am at Maccas. Who would have thought that 5 months later we would all be saying that they were relatively responsible?

To be acting in a properly responsible fashion in a game week, a player would have to be back at the hotel and no longer consuming alcohol by 10:30 to 11:00pm. Maybe you might cut someone a bit of slack if they were not in the 23, its a long tough tour when you're only carrying tackle bags.

I didn't see the results of their RBT scan so I don't know if they were sober. Sober or not, being out at Macca's at 4:00am is never responsible in a game week. Rest/sleep for a MINIMUM of eight hours is essential for after-training recovery.

I for one am not saying Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) were relatively responsible. IMO they were grossly irresponsible and the fact that this went unsanctioned was reprehensible.

 

[Richo]

There are two things here.

One is the behavior of the players and, IMO, it was poor whichever way you slice it. Evening they were in their hotels playing tiddlywinks they should be sleeping long before 3:45am. I've got no problem with them being sanctioned.

The other is how team standards / protocols / expectations function. If half the squad did the wrong thing, there is almost certainly an organizational / management issue as well as a behavioral one. This extends down to the Wallabies captain who didn't get his teammates home in time, if he really was out with them until close to curfew. This shouldn't be blown out of proportion, but I hope that internally there isn't just player sanctioning going on, but also some reflection on how the squad runs more broadly. Best to make the incident a learning experience in as many ways as possible.

 

[BPC]

BPC I think Link made a decision, communicated it to the group, they accepted it and they're now working towards Scotland.

I think the media is trying to do more with the information they were given initially - similar to what we are doing & interpreting/guessing. McKenzie has only been quoted once up there. The rest of the "journalism" is "it is understood.(by who? The journalist? And if so, why is that "understood"?). I blame poor journalism for the mixed messages.

That's true. I am just concerned that there is enough information to make the punishments appear inconsistent. This is why I think it was a mis-step by Ewen to provide half the story but not all of it.

 

[A mutterer]

I think given the circumstances and the allegation about a 4:00 am return that it's a fair enough call. Ewen must have been ropeable that a) it happened and B) that he had to set a curfew and grog ban.

 

[Train Without a Station]

That's true. I am just concerned that there is enough information to make the punishments appear inconsistent. This is why I think it was a mis-step by Ewen to provide half the story but not all of it.

Where's the inconsistency? Players were reprimanded based on when they got home. The earliest group got a verbal warning, the later group got a written warning and the latest group got dropped. They appear consistent to me.

 

[gel]

That's true. I am just concerned that there is enough information to make the punishments appear inconsistent. This is why I think it was a mis-step by Ewen to provide half the story but not all of it.

The most important thing is that it is consistent in the players minds and they are the ones with the full story.

Time will tell whether link has made the right decision and whether the players will move in his direction.

Ewen strikes me as being alpha as fuck and the the players will feel appropriately chastened instead of harshly treated.

 

[It is what it is]

P

Where's the inconsistency? Players were reprimanded based on when they got home. The earliest group got a verbal warning, the later group got a written warning and the latest group got dropped. They appear consistent to me.

Probably the other factor that needed to be considered was how much alcohol was consumed.
What's worse, home early but smashed OR home really late but sober?

 

[Scrubber2050]

nah scrubber, born and bred here.

maybe we have different definitions of 'mates', or maybe not. You might have again stumbled upon the problem.

If I am an 'elite athlete', playing for and representing my country, then I have to ask is 'another person in my team out on the piss and doing things I feel are inappropriate', is he my mate? Does he share the same goals and ideals as I do?

I now think you hit the nail on the head.

Left to it's own devices, it is the accepted group dynamics that will determine the makeup of the group. It's fine to go out on the piss? Then over time that WILL be the final makeup of the group.

Why? Because those that dispute or push back against the accepted norms will be ostracized and leave the group. Hence, we can work backwards and work out what the group norms are by the actions.

would be interesting to find out what mateship represents to you. Someone fiddles with little kids (something you disapprove of) and you don't report it due to something called 'mateship'? IS he actually a mate is the next logical question.

any analagy with kiddie fiddlers is disgraceful. Major crime is totally different.
Mateshiip to me is about reliability that your mate has your back.
Thats why I hoped that the dibber dobber was a manager.

terry j - glad I never went to school with you

 

[Train Without a Station]

P
Probably the other factor that needed to be considered was how much alcohol was consumed.
What's worse, home early but smashed OR home really late but sober?

Perhaps we should commission a forensic investigation to determine both how many drinks were consumed by each player and how affected each player was by these drinks?

Give it a rest. The later you were out, the more you were assumed to have drunk. Fairly reasonable assumption. No players seem to being making any qualms about this know so they likely agree.

 

[terry j]

any analagy with kiddie fiddlers is disgraceful. Major crime is totally different.
Mateshiip to me is about reliability that your mate has your back.
Thats why I hoped that the dibber dobber was a manager.

terry j - glad I never went to school with you

Fo sure scrubber, but what it DOES do is get you to find the limits of your blind trust of mates. Glad to see that you did btw.

Now we know that your earlier statements were not so absolute eh? Now we know that even you acknowledge not dobbing on your mates DOES have boundaries.

The point is, this attitude is SO ingrained in australia it takes these sort of efforts to expose the flaws.

Now back to the situation in hand, as more and more data comes out (drinking and staying out till 4 am) more and more people seem to be saying 'well, if that is what occurred then yes, I am more and more agreeing with ewen's actions'.

And so for mine it's thankfuck someone in the playing group was sufficiently alarmed at the poor behaviour of some of his cohort to do something about it.

Else, per your stance, this behaviour would have remained in place.

I would much prefer to see the playing group waking up enough to see the limits crossed and so do something about it than, yet again, shrug the collective shoulders and turn a blind eye to destructive behaviour.

Yep, you probably would be glad we did not go to school together, it is both an admission of you knowingly doing what was considered widely as being wrong and then expecting sanctuary from those who were not doing wrong by appealing to them to cover for your wrongness.

You're right, you would not have had me covering your back, after all I would not have considered someone doing wrong as a mate. THAT is where your belief falls down. That is where your concept is wrong, it all revolves around the concept of what a mate is, birds of a feather and all that.

Those in the playing group who DO get home without the need of a shepherd, those who take pride in the gold jumper, those that do not engage in excessive drinking at inappropriate times, WHY would they consider those others as anything other than an enemy to their own beliefs, let alone mates?

 

[sneaker]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...dublin-nightclub/story-fnii0mk9-1226764574085

 

[sneaker]

I dont reckon anyone dobbed in their team mates, I reckon McKenzie probably looked at CCTV footage at hotel lobby, and see what time everyone came home in the morning.. pretty plausible..

 

[Bullrush]

any analagy with kiddie fiddlers is disgraceful. Major crime is totally different.
Mateshiip to me is about reliability that your mate has your back.
Thats why I hoped that the dibber dobber was a manager.

terry j - glad I never went to school with you

This is always a bit confusing to me.

I'm expected to 'have your back' cos you're an idiot. When do you start 'having my back' and stop making dumb decisions that put me difficult situations about 'dobbing' you in?

Personally, I wouldn't go and dob you in but I wouldn't lie for you and if you keep doing it, we probably wouldn't continue being mates for long.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Seems like a pretty good step towards a strong, successful culture if players are willing to call out team mates who aren't uphold the most professional of standards. Much the same as calling team mate out for not pulling their weight at training.

This is a representative team. How is it unreasonable to expect those who are a part of it to go one step further than those that are not. In this regard, may be fines would have to be further justified. However, Link seems well within his rights to leave the players to their own devices and if he's not happy with how they have conducted themselves, select somebody else over them who is happy with. It's been known for coaches to select players who have "great attitude", etc. This is merely an extension of it really.

 

[Braveheart81]

I dont reckon anyone dobbed in their team mates, I reckon McKenzie probably looked at CCTV footage at hotel lobby, and see what time everyone came home in the morning.. pretty plausible..

I reckon this is pretty unplausible.

On what basis would a hotel provide this information to a coach of a football team?

In most situations, the Police would require a warrant to get this information.

 

[I like to watch]

?....I think most people were more outraged by Deans seemingly rudderless oversight of what used to be a respected side in world rugby. If agitating for a change to McKenzie (or someone/anyone else) makes me a "sycophantic supporter" and a fuckwit, then I'm happy with that description.

If we want to talk about weak and gutless decisions, then lets have a look at RD's actions over Beale & JOC (James O'Connor) during the Lions series. Didn't matter what they did, he wouldn't drop them. 4am burger runs, missing team meetings and buses. The bloke didn't discipline the team, and this is what you see as a .....,

Don't blame Deans for this shit.
There were NEVER any reports of 1/2 the squad being on the juice till after 3.30 am mid week of a Test series on his watch.
Comparing 2 brats on a burger run stone cold sober with 15 players in a night club,and suggesting the former is somehow worse,is silly.
Credit to Link,he has addressed the issue.But it is his issue,it's not a legacy issue.

 

[Braveheart81]

People are so quick to want to blame someone else.

Why not just blame the people that made the poor decision to stay out until early in the morning a few days before a rugby test?

Seemingly this was against the internal rules and the players have been dealt with quite harshly. Hopefully that will mean that this doesn't happen again anytime soon.

Let's be glad that this never became a public issue outside of the Wallabies making it one. At least none of our players decided to punch someone in the queue outside a nightclub and were arrested.

 

[BPC]

I reckon this is pretty unplausible.

I find your choice of adjective to be implausible.

 

[Slim 293]

Comparing 2 brats on a burger run "stone cold sober" with 15 players in a night club,and suggesting the former is somehow worse,is silly.